Predestination is misunderstood...

[Thunderrr-mental]

No one "deserves" God's love. That is quite evident. Grace is UNDESERVED love and mercy. Not sure what you mean by "clothe you" but the imputed righteousness of Christ is also undeserved, unearned, and unmerited.

Wrong wrong wrong, for God so loved the world he gave his one and only son.

Then also Jesus said forgive them father they know not what they Do.

Then also God said he favours the humble but resists the proud..


So heres a question again I've asked for 5 pages.

@Dino246 @Cameron143 @sawdust @Genez @tylerbones1313 you can all answer


List the things that Adam eve did that was deserving of something from God in this passage.



Adam and Eve had allegedly fallen here,

Genesis 3



11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.



So what are the things that Adam and Eve did in the above passage that was deserving Of Gods love.

Baring in mind what they did was in a fallen state.
So what are the things they did in the above passage that was deserving Of God's love.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

If God says?
I created man to love him?

Its not a matter of deserved, or not.

I don't know why...

But too many believers become preoccupied with religious concepts, such as deserved vs undeserved -
and will force and squeeze everything into a box of their own making.

Paul said plainly that grace is power from God. Enabling power that God gives to man.
Grace power to overcome weakness and helplessness.
It has nothing to do with being deserving, or not deserving.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9​

​

Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to ​

me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s ​

power may rest on me. ​

Was Paul deserving God's help?
Was Paul undeserving?

God gives grace to those whom He loves!!!!

Is God really that stupid as some make Him to be?

God gives grace to those whom He LOVES!

​

​

And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement ​

that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,​

​

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,​

and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,​

because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,​

and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”​

​

Hebrews 12:5-6​

Does a parent love his child not because he is deserving, or undeserving?
Makes no difference!!!!

So why then do some make that into such a major issue???

Answer?
'False humility."

God is our Father!
Not our employer.

Employees are evaluated as deserving and undeserving...

In Christ..... grace and peace.

.

I know why, people think No one is deserving of God love.

It's because there evil

 

[tylerbones1313]

Wrong wrong wrong, for God so loved the world he gave his one and only son.

Then also Jesus said forgive them father they know not what they Do.

Then also God said he favours the humble but resists the proud..


So heres a question again I've asked for 5 pages.

@Dino246 @Cameron143 @sawdust @Genez @tylerbones1313 you can all answer


List the things that Adam eve did that was deserving of something from God in this passage.



Adam and Eve had allegedly fallen here,

Genesis 3



11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.



So what are the things that Adam and Eve did in the above passage that was deserving Of Gods love.

Baring in mind what they did was in a fallen state.
So what are the things they did in the above passage that was deserving Of God's love.

The question seems to center on the nature of God's love for humanity, especially in the context of human disobedience and failure, as illustrated by the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3. The passage you've cited highlights the moment when God confronts Adam and Eve after they have eaten the forbidden fruit, thereby disobeying God's command. This act is traditionally understood as the original sin, marking the fall of humanity.

To address the question directly: In the Genesis 3 passage, Adam and Eve's actions (eating the forbidden fruit, and then their responses to God's inquiry) are not described in a way that merits God's love based on their own righteousness or deservingness. Instead, the story emphasizes disobedience, blame-shifting, and the failure to uphold the command God had given them. Adam blames Eve (and implicitly God for giving him Eve), while Eve blames the serpent.

However, the essence of God's love, as portrayed in the broader biblical narrative, is not contingent upon human deservingness or merit. For example, John 3:16 emphasizes that God's love for the world is so profound that He gave His only Son, not because the world was deserving, but because God is love, and He desires to save humanity from the consequences of sin. Similarly, Jesus' plea on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34), underscores the nature of divine love and forgiveness, even in the face of humanity's ignorance and sinfulness.

The mention of God favoring the humble but resisting the proud (referenced in several scriptures, including James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, echoing Proverbs 3:34) points to the attitude with which humans are called to approach God: one of humility and repentance, acknowledging our need for God's grace rather than claiming any inherent deservingness.

Therefore, the narrative of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3, when seen in the light of the whole biblical witness, is not about what they did that was deserving of God's love. Instead, it's a foundational story that sets the stage for the unfolding of God's redemptive plan for humanity—a plan that culminates in Christ and is marked by grace, mercy, and love, rather than human merit. This divine love is unearned and freely given, demonstrating God's character and his desire for a restored relationship with humanity, despite our failures and sins.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The question seems to center on the nature of God's love for humanity, especially in the context of human disobedience and failure, as illustrated by the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3. The passage you've cited highlights the moment when God confronts Adam and Eve after they have eaten the forbidden fruit, thereby disobeying God's command. This act is traditionally understood as the original sin, marking the fall of humanity.

To address the question directly: In the Genesis 3 passage, Adam and Eve's actions (eating the forbidden fruit, and then their responses to God's inquiry) are not described in a way that merits God's love based on their own righteousness or deservingness. Instead, the story emphasizes disobedience, blame-shifting, and the failure to uphold the command God had given them. Adam blames Eve (and implicitly God for giving him Eve), while Eve blames the serpent.

However, the essence of God's love, as portrayed in the broader biblical narrative, is not contingent upon human deservingness or merit. For example, John 3:16 emphasizes that God's love for the world is so profound that He gave His only Son, not because the world was deserving, but because God is love, and He desires to save humanity from the consequences of sin. Similarly, Jesus' plea on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34), underscores the nature of divine love and forgiveness, even in the face of humanity's ignorance and sinfulness.

The mention of God favoring the humble but resisting the proud (referenced in several scriptures, including James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, echoing Proverbs 3:34) points to the attitude with which humans are called to approach God: one of humility and repentance, acknowledging our need for God's grace rather than claiming any inherent deservingness.

Therefore, the narrative of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3, when seen in the light of the whole biblical witness, is not about what they did that was deserving of God's love. Instead, it's a foundational story that sets the stage for the unfolding of God's redemptive plan for humanity—a plan that culminates in Christ and is marked by grace, mercy, and love, rather than human merit. This divine love is unearned and freely given, demonstrating God's character and his desire for a restored relationship with humanity, despite our failures and sins.

What did they do in this passage that was deserving Of God's love



12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

I'm not talking about how man feels about being merited.

I Am asking you what did adam and eve do in this passage that was deserving of God's love.

Adam and eve did not do anything in this passage on the bases of something being merited

They did something.


What is it that they did that was deserving of God's love

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Listen while I do not approve of the way my firned responded you would be wise to at to at least consider what he says I have watched him grow in a a manner I have rarely seen he in the end will always point back to God je says it is about God not us your responce is not warrented I am noy afraid to call out my firends but I also know and see where peoples hearts lay

Don'y look at anyone with the eyes the world does there is much truth in what he says not because he is my friend but but because there is much you don't know about him and how connected he is to God many rely on their knowledge of scripture it is the same thing over and over people use theiur knowldedge of scripture first not the heart of God he while not perfect as I am not perfect puts God's heart first before what he thinks the scriptures say if you hold the scriptures as true then please look and recite what what the scriptures say we are to be how we are to treat one another

unity in Christ in Christ not what we think or believe if we are the body why do we only care about who is right or wrong as if that ever mattered and trust me I have failed I have been in the wrong I will not deny any mispoken word any wrong doing to others yoou ask me what sins I have cxommited I will not deny any sin in fact in my life I have been a liar I have committed blashemy against God cursed him out in my anger you can call me every name under the sun and I won't deny it butI call for unity the love that is far is far more important than anything else his love is not the same as we humans know

It changes you it brings you to the deeper depths of his heart it love it is him nothing else whatever you believe whatever you consider truth that never mattered And by all means come at me for my sins for I more than deserve it but also consider how his love has brought someone as me lower than the dirt the worms eat speaks of his love it is love and only love that brings you close to him

He doesn't care what you think he doesn't bother with what you think is truth or what you say his word is final but all this sarcasm all this division amongst each other is this what truth is? is this what his kingdom is is this what we cried out for salvation is?

Unity understanding comforting encouraging strengthening each other this is what the scriptures say we are to do and be for each other ask yourself how much of this have you done on here aside from those you agree with? I ca;lled out my own best friend I admitted my own failings have you ever done this?

I accept your correction in the sense that when peoole say spit the truth, it is a figure of speech, so maybe i should of just accepted this is all he meant.

But with other people, they have said to me, your truth does not mean spit to me.

So whilst I may have been wrong to say to him don't ask me to spit the truth out and don't think of the truth as spit without asking him what intension where, quite often when I ask what people what there intension is directly in here over what they've said, oftenni get a load more spit back.

So whilst I recognise your correction and whilst I'm always willing to listen to you anytime you need to correct me.

I'm never not going to not speak to you as if your word means nothing.

There was a reason why I was firm in response, and now you've seen his unwillingness to let things go and escalate things.

You've also seen his unwillingness to have no regard for his fellow brother with the rest of his cheap remarks.

So my response was firm in getting to know his intension

I only give people the benefit so many times before becoming firm in my responses,

I have given him the benefit and a chance umpteen times before becoming firm with him.

 

[tylerbones1313]

What did they do in this passage that was deserving Of God's love



12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

I'm not talking about how man feels about being merited.

I Am asking you what did adam and eve do in this passage that was deserving of God's love.

Adam and eve did not do anything in this passage on the bases of something being merited

They did something.


What is it that they did that was deserving of God's love

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

We give up. Tell us the answer.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

We give up. Tell us the answer.

sorry but if you don't mind im wait for somebody to make the suggestion 😊


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

[tylerbones1313]

What did they do in this passage that was deserving Of God's love



12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

I'm not talking about how man feels about being merited.

I Am asking you what did adam and eve do in this passage that was deserving of God's love.

Adam and eve did not do anything in this passage on the bases of something being merited

They did something.


What is it that they did that was deserving of God's love

In Genesis Chapter 3, Adam and Eve's actions, which include hiding from God and shifting blame for their disobedience, weren't any actions that were inherently deserving of God's love based on their own merit. Their actions in this chapter involve disobeying God's command by eating the forbidden fruit, leading to the fall. God's love for them, as depicted in the aftermath of their actions, is a testament to His grace and mercy, not a reward for their behavior. God's grace and mercy in responding to their disobedience, underscoring that God's love is not contingent on human worthiness.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

In Genesis Chapter 3, Adam and Eve's actions, which include hiding from God and shifting blame for their disobedience, weren't any actions that were inherently deserving of God's love based on their own merit. Their actions in this chapter involve disobeying God's command by eating the forbidden fruit, leading to the fall. God's love for them, as depicted in the aftermath of their actions, is a testament to His grace and mercy, not a reward for their behavior. God's grace and mercy in responding to their disobedience, underscoring that God's love is not contingent on human worthiness.

I'm not taking about the whole of genesis 3

I'm taking about they did in this passage

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

what did they both do here

 

[Charlie_2024]

I'm not taking about the whole of genesis 3

I'm taking about they did in this passage

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

what did they both do here

Good question, it sounds like they were trying to make excuses for breaking God's one and only command to them

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Good question, it sounds like they were trying to make excuses for breaking God's one and only command to them

Nope that's not what they did, they did something else

 

[Magenta]

Stop acting like His imputed Righteousness is wall paper He slaps on us.
That it is not there to become a part of us!

What in the world? Since we are to become like He is, Jesus' righteousness does become a part of us.

Your responses to me leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Good question, it sounds like they were trying to make excuses for breaking God's one and only command to them

where do you see the excuse being made.


Genesis 3

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.


12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.


Where do you see the excuse being made.

Now what did they do in this passage



12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.


There something they did in this passage that was deserving of Gods love. What is it.

 

[tylerbones1313]

where do you see the excuse being made.


Genesis 3

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.


12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.


Where do you see the excuse being made.

Now what did they do in this passage



12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.


There something they did in this passage that was deserving of Gods love. What is it.

In the passage from Genesis 3:12-13, Adam and Eve's actions of eating the forbidden fruit and their subsequent responses to God do not inherently make them deserving of God's love. Instead, this narrative highlights human disobedience, the introduction of sin into the world, and the complex nature of God's love and justice.

God's love in the Bible is depicted as unconditional and not based on human actions or merits. Romans 5:8 states, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." This verse underlines the idea that God's love is not contingent upon human righteousness or the lack thereof. In the case of Adam and Eve, God's love for them is not a direct response to their sin, but rather a fundamental aspect of His character as their Creator and the Creator of all humanity.

Furthermore, the narrative of Adam and Eve serves to teach about the consequences of sin and the necessity of accountability before God. Despite their disobedience, God's actions towards Adam and Eve post-fall demonstrate His continued care and provision for them (e.g., making garments for them). This reflects God's love and mercy even in the face of human rebellion. However, it's important to note that God's love does not negate the reality of sin or its consequences, but it opens the door for redemption and restoration through repentance and faith.

In conclusion, the story of Adam and Eve's disobedience is not a depiction of what makes humanity deserving of God's love. Rather, it illustrates the nature of human fallibility, the seriousness of sin, and the profound depth of God's love, which seeks to redeem and restore. God's love is constant and unearned, a testament to His grace, rather than a response to human actions.

 

[Genez]

Wrong wrong wrong, for God so loved the world he gave his one and only son.

Then also Jesus said forgive them father they know not what they Do.

Then also God said he favours the humble but resists the proud..


So heres a question again I've asked for 5 pages.

@Dino246 @Cameron143 @sawdust @Genez @tylerbones1313 you can all answer


List the things that Adam eve did that was deserving of something from God in this passage.



Adam and Eve had allegedly fallen here,

Genesis 3



11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.



So what are the things that Adam and Eve did in the above passage that was deserving Of Gods love.

Baring in mind what they did was in a fallen state.
So what are the things they did in the above passage that was deserving Of God's love.

You just collect other people's thoughts here and then try to work one against the other?
Because you don't believe this stuff. Do you?

 

[Genez]

Well, there are none worthy but One... we put on His righteousness .

Do you act as if we still have not put on His righteousness?
You will keep feeling unworthy otherwise.

If we put on His righteousness?
Have we not become worthy and deserving of God's love?
Or, His approval?
God can love you without approving of you, if you are failing to walk in grace and truth.

How do we put on His righteousness?
When its not our own righteousness?

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.​

​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9​

If we are ever to put on His righteousness we need to know and understand His Word with great accuracy.
Not with the sloppy stuff we get from most pulpits these days, which is really men giving us their thoughts
and telling us of their ways. Ways that we find to agree with when we pick a church.

Where are you going to find a good pastor teacher today?

Matthew 7:13-14


“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, ​

and many enter through it. ​

​

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
​

​

Many Christians today are ship wrecked in their faith.... Few find what is needed and real.

Who can tell you that truth?


.

 

[HeIsHere]

I believe in limited atonement because I believe it is unjust to accept payment for a debt and then demand payment a second time.
I believe apart from the grace of God that produces faith no one gets saved. So if grace is the beginning of salvation, then it is always initiated by God. If this is so, God did the choosing.
Your sensibilities are offended because this doesn't comport well with what you believe to be true of God. That's why I breached the subject of fair verses just. Justice is based on behavior verses a standard...it deals legally with what is right and wrong. The Judge of all the earth will always do right; meaning He will always act righteously. But He is not 0always fair. Fairness is not about behavior against a standard, but a behavior against another behavior.
I understand that fairness today has a negative connection. But God is also good. He doesn't deal differently with people as men do. He doesn't stop being good as He deals with people.
But one of the things that I find inconsistent in people is what offends them. For example, are you ok that God dealt almost exclusively with Israel in the OT to the detriment of all the other nations? Are you offended that God chose for Satan to destroy Job? Are you offended that God chose salvation for man, but not angels?
God has mercy on whom He has mercy. He chooses what He does. When that seems inconsistent with what we believe is true of Him, it is for us to alter our beliefs and not what is true of God.

You are delving into a lot of philosophy here rather than scripture. Let's just deal with scripture because God has not revealed everything to us.

On limited atonement which is once again a philosophical view that superimposed on scripture much like the other tenets of this system.

Scripture is clear, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2
1 John 4:14

"World" is mentioned 28 times in 1 John 26.

The Lord is patient in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with YOU not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9

Peter does not write "He is patient with His sovereign decree", nor does Peter write "He is sovereign with His work of regeneration."

Jesus is clear, the condition is belief and no there is no such thing as "spiritual" hearing, of those who hear some will not respond and some will.

No it is not prevenient grace and saving faith is not a gift given to some and denied to others that is not how God works.
Israel had a job to do here on earth and yes God does have a plan but it is never selective but always for the good of all and the desire for all to respond.

No where does scripture set up this problem of people in hell for whom Christ died.

Limited atonement is a philosophical response to a problem that Calvinism essentially creates by denying the the ability of people to respond to the Gospel message.

 

[Magenta]

Do you act as if we still have not put on His righteousness?
You will keep feeling unworthy otherwise.

If we put on His righteousness?
Have we not become worthy and deserving of God's love?
Or, His approval?
God can love you without approving of you, if you are failing to walk in grace and truth.

How do we put on His righteousness?
When its not our own righteousness?

​

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​

neither are your ways my ways,”​

declares the Lord.​

​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,​

so are my ways higher than your ways​

and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9​

If we are ever to put on His righteousness we need to know and understand His Word with great accuracy.
Not with the sloppy stuff we get from most pulpits these days, which is really men giving us their thoughts
and telling us of their ways. Ways that we find to agree with when we pick a church.

Where are you going to find a good pastor teacher today?

Matthew 7:13-14​

​

​

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, ​

and many enter through it. ​

​

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.​

​

​

Many Christians today are ship wrecked in their faith.... Few find what is needed and real.

Who can tell you that truth?


.

You can pretend you are worthy and deserving if you like. Scripture says only One is.

I know it is not you.

 

[HeIsHere]

Hardly. It is the highest view of God. Owing nothing to anyone, but still condescending. What love!
But out of curiosity, what does God owe you?

Why do you view God in such negative light and why do you view humans so negatively?

Look at how you couch things.

Did it ever occur to you God is long suffering and forgiving it is not about what we deserve/are owed it is about what He wants to give.

 

[Dino246]

There something they did in this passage that was deserving of Gods love. What is it.

Stop with your foolish pedantry! Just state what you think and stop pretending that you know more than anyone else. You clearly don't.