Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[FollowerofShiloh]

I reject your private opinion, that you go by the Bible. If that was the case you wouldn't be imposing your private view on Bible doctrine. If you want to be taken seriously you need to provide evidence that your view is not a false one.

Simply claiming to have the correct interpretation, doesn't mean that you poses it. It would take more than just your words to convince me that you have the authority to interpret scripture according to your understanding.

The Bible commands us to obey it, we were never given the right to cherry pick it, and use it to promote our private views which don't line up with the rest of scripture.

I said what the Bible said WORD for WORD.
I said Adam was not deceived just like 1 Timothy 2:14 claims.
So how can that be opinion?

1 Timothy 2:14
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived

 

[Charlie_2024]

How can it be interpreted any way than what it claims when we know the Elect are past the "might be saved" stage and are at the guaranteed stage of being saved?
They cannot be Elect without being saved, therefore they "are saved."
So clearly verse 17 is for those who "are not" saved.

I appreciate you don't like the fact that the Church is divided on so many Bible doctrines. I don't like it any more than you do, but sadly it's the reality we have to grapple with.
I also agree that there is only one true interpretation, and many false ones. I believe the Bible described those who believe false teachers, as "there is a way that seems right onto man, but the end thereof is death" I think that verse is a warning not to blindly accept any particular denominations interpretation of the Bible, but to pray that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I appreciate you don't like the fact that the Church is divided on so many Bible doctrines. I don't like it any more than you do, but sadly it's the reality we have to grapple with.
I also agree that there is only one true interpretation, and many false ones. I believe the Bible described those who believe false teachers, as "there is a way that seems right onto man, but the end thereof is death" I think that verse is a warning not to blindly accept any particular denominations interpretation of the Bible, but to pray that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth.

I have no issue with you making me prove myself. It's a good thing. But I always give the same answer we can read in the Bible because God is "Watching" me. He already knows if you're being deceitful, going by your doctrine, trying to confuse or manipulate me. But He is watching how I handle you. So I always use the Bible as it can be factually read and understood. He holds me accountable to always be truthful and to use His Word for my answers.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I said what the Bible said WORD for WORD.
I said Adam was not deceived just like 1 Timothy 2:14 claims.
So how can that be opinion?

1 Timothy 2:14
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived

But the elephant in the room is saying that Adam wasn't deceived by the Satan approaching him and deceiving him. If you read the Genesis account you will find that Eve deceived Adam and she did so by the power of her master Satan

 

[Charlie_2024]

I have no issue with you making me prove myself. It's a good thing. But I always give the same answer we can read in the Bible because God is "Watching" me. He already knows if you're being deceitful, going by your doctrine, trying to confuse or manipulate me. But He is watching how I handle you. So I always use the Bible as it can be factually read and understood. He holds me accountable to always be truthful and to use His Word for my answers.

That's great but you still haven't corrected anything I said using the Bible, you just resorted to your own bias which is not the same as being corrected by Gods word.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But the elephant in the room is saying that Adam wasn't deceived by the Satan approaching him and deceiving him. If you read the Genesis account you will find that Eve deceived Adam and she did so by the power of her master Satan

No, if you read Genesis you see that Adam was there and let Eve be deceived and did nothing because he chose to sin.

6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise; so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

That's great but you still haven't corrected anything I said using the Bible, you just resorted to your own bias which is not the same as being corrected by Gods word.

You have not used the Bible only gave your opinion. But I am not like you and I do give the Bible for my answer.

 

[Charlie_2024]

No, if you read Genesis you see that Adam was there and let Eve be deceived and did nothing because he chose to sin.

6 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise; so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Sorry, you can't add your opinion to Gods Word. The text does not say that Adam was there, you superimpose your private view over what God has said. This is very dangerous

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sorry, you can't add your opinion to Gods Word. The text does not say that Adam was there, you superimpose your private view over what God has said. This is very dangerous

so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

In any language this portion of scripture, "she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her" always means Adam was there with Eve!

 

[PaulThomson]

It all depends on whether your a Calvinist or Arminian, as the two have very different interpretations. You obviously believe the Arminian theology and I believe that Calvinist theology is biblically correct. So I'll stick with Calvinism until someone shows me why the Arminian theology is the Biblically correct one. We don't have any third option to choose, so it has to be one of these two.

I haven't found any scriptures which support the Arminian position, but I'm open minded and willing to be corrected. And nobody has found anything, biblically wrong with Calvinism so far.

I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist. I don't agree with or follow religiously the teachings of calvin. I don'tagree with or follow all the teachings of Arminius. I start with the presuppositions that, 1 God cannot lie. 2. The Bible is God breathed. Unless some theological proposition is clearly stated in the Bible, I don't have any need to affirm it as true.

This is a third way to do theology, that is neither calvinist nor Arminian. Can you possibly assimilate that there is another third option? Or are you stuck in Manichaean dualism.

"If you believe in the Manichean idea of dualism, you tend to look at things as having two sides that are opposed. To Manicheans, life can be divided neatly between good or evil, light or dark, or love and hate." https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/Manichean#:~:text=If you believe in the,dark, or love and hate.

 

[Charlie_2024]

so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

In any language this portion of scripture, "she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her" always means Adam was there with Eve!

Eve had to be with Adam in order to seduce him into rebelling against God. That is obvious but you placed Satan at the scene when the Bible doesn't. The text says Eve seduced him and not Satan and Eve. Satan is not as stupid as might think He is, why would He blow His cover and lose Adam. He wanted to have both under His dominion and control.

So please stop adding your word to Gods Word, to support your false narrative. Let God speak for Himself, He doesn't need your help

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Eve had to be with Adam in order to seduce him into rebelling against God. That is obvious but you placed Satan at the scene when the Bible doesn't. The text says Eve seduced him and not Satan and Eve. Satan is not as stupid as might think He is, why would He blow His cover and lose Adam. He wanted to have both under His dominion and control.

So please stop adding your word to Gods Word, to support your false narrative. Let God speak for Himself, He doesn't need your help

How about instead of YOU falsely accusing me of what YOU have been doing this entire conversation just go by what the BIBLE says like I have been doing?

1 Timothy 2:14
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived

YOU are calling the Bible WRONG. Do YOU know what that makes YOU?

 

[John146]

so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

In any language this portion of scripture, "she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her" always means Adam was there with Eve!

Adam was with her in the garden, but not standing right next to her, hearing the conversation with the serpent.

 

[John146]

How about instead of YOU falsely accusing me of what YOU have been doing this entire conversation just go by what the BIBLE says like I have been doing?

1 Timothy 2:14
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived

YOU are calling the Bible WRONG. Do YOU know what that makes YOU?

Adam was not deceived. He knew what he was doing. This is why Paul, in Romans 5, tells us that Adam's sin was a type of what Jesus Christ would do for us, his bride.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Adam was with her in the garden, but not standing right next to her, hearing the conversation with the serpent.

Bible does not say that anywhere.
I only go by the fact that when she did pick the fruit and eat that immediately gave to Adam who was there with her.

so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Adam was not deceived. He knew what he was doing. This is why Paul, in Romans 5, tells us that Adam's sin was a type of what Jesus Christ would do for us, his bride.

Tell that to Charlie who insists the Bible is wrong according to 1 Timothy 2:14

I agree with You that Adam was not deceived because verse 14 point blank makes that very claim.

 

[John146]

Bible does not say that anywhere.
I only go by the fact that when she did pick the fruit and eat that immediately gave to Adam who was there with her.

so she took of its fruit, and she ate, and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

I don't see the word immediately.

 

[John146]

Tell that to Charlie who insists the Bible is wrong according to 1 Timothy 2:14

I agree with You that Adam was not deceived because verse 14 point blank makes that very claim.

And...

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And...

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

I am the one using scripture not opinion like Charlie and I agree with You John 100%

When a question can be clearly answered by the Bible, that is the same as a judge hitting the gavel to the plank.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't see the word immediately.

And I don't see in that sentence where the kind of time elapsed between her eating the fruit and Adam eating for him not to be there the entire time. It plainly states Eve picked the fruit, ate, gave to Adam/the husband who is with her, he ate.