Predestination is misunderstood...

[FollowerofShiloh]

You did not show that the surrounding verses were in contradiction to the verse mentioned which expressively shows that God is sovereign in all things and this truth is the bedrock of Scripture.

View attachment 261737

I most certainly did. You just refuse to go back and look because it would make you out to be what you truly are.

 

[maxamir]

The fact is GOD gave those people another 120 years to change their ways. And they chose to reject God. Just like verse 17 in John chapter 3 points out Jesus Died so "ALL MIGHT BE SAVED." Might be Saved is a contingency for the willing. If you're willing you will head to the Word of God. If you're not willing you will reject the Word of God. Free Will is something you should be learning more about rather than your reformed doctrines.

To propose a free will in man toward God is contradictory to Scripture which declares that man is spiritually dead, only evil continually, does not seek God and spiritual things are only foolishness to him.

 

[maxamir]

What (and how) does the sovereign grace of God accomplish what it does?

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

[maxamir]

I most certainly did. You just refuse to go back and look because it would make you out to be what you truly are.

Are you denying that God is supremely sovereign?

 

[Genez]

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

That all refers to all those of whom God knew would choose to believe when given the grace to make their souls free to believe.
And not only to believe. But, to be predestined by God to be born in the church age, so that they would be found 'in Christ' when God determined they would believe. For we are now 'in Christ' like Eve was 'in Adam' before she was revealed.

We will be revealed in the resurrection of the Church as the Bride of Christ. For then we shall be "bone of his bones and flesh of His glorious body.... Just like Eve was bone of Adam's bone and flesh of Adam's flesh...

That is what we have been Chosen "in Him" for.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If anyone will take a Concordance and read carefully the various passages in which the term “world” (as a translation of “kosmos”) occurs, he will quickly perceive that to ascertain the precise meaning of, the word “world” in any given passage is not nearly so easy as is popularly supposed. The word “kosmos,” and its English equivalent “world,” is not used with a uniform significance in the New Testament. Very far from it. It is used in quite a number of different ways. Below we will refer to a few passages where this term occurs, suggesting a tentative definition in each case:

“Kosmos” is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 – “God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth.” is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17: 24 – “God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth.”

“Kosmos” is used of the earth: John 13:1; Eph. 1:4, etc., etc.- “When Jesus knew that his hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world He loved them unto the end.” “Depart out of this world” signifies, leave this earth. “According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.” This expression signifies, before the earth was founded—compare Job 38:4 etc.

“Kosmos” is used of the world-system: John 12:31 etc. “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the Prince of this world be cast out”— compare Matt. 4:8 and I John 5:19, R. V.

“Kosmos” is used of the whole human race: Rom. 3: 19, etc.—”Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

“Kosmos” is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.” Believers do not “hate” Christ, so that “the world” here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. “God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world.” Here is another passage where “the world” cannot mean “you, me, and everybody,” for believers will not be “judged” by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view. is used of humanity minus believers: John 15:18; Rom. 3:6 “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated Me before it hated you.” Believers do not “hate” Christ, so that “the world” here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ. “God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world.” Here is another passage where “the world” cannot mean “you, me, and everybody,” for believers will not be “judged” by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.

“Kosmos” is used of Gentiles in contrast from Jews: Rom. 11:12 etc. “Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel’s) fulness.” Note how the first clause in italics is defined by the latter clause placed in italics. Here, again, “the world” cannot signify all humanity for it excludes Israel!

“Kosmos” is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of “the world” in each place. is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16, 17; 6:33; 12;47; I Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19. We leave our readers to turn to these passages, asking them to note, carefully, exactly what is said and predicated of “the world” in each place.

Thus it will be seen that “kosmos” has at least seven clearly defined different meanings in the New Testament.

"Kosmos" in John 3:16 - by AW Pink

Just like the word all does not mean all, all the time, the word world does not mean every single person all the time.

Christ is said to have laid down His life for all and also laid down His life for many which logic demands must mean that it is the all of the many and not every single person in the world.

John 3:16

16 Οὕτως
16 Thus



γὰρ
for



ἠγάπησεν
loved



ὁ
-



Θεὸς
God



τὸν
the



κόσμον
world-universe

^
Same word John uses in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2

κοσμου
of world-universe

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

To propose a free will in man toward God is contradictory to Scripture which declares that man is spiritually dead, only evil continually, does not seek God and spiritual things are only foolishness to him.

View attachment 261738

As my Dad would say, You're kind of Special, aren't ya?

We have all stated as the Bible states from Paul's Letter, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

We HEARD the Gospel, Believed, Sealed with the Holy Spirit.
or
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God”


Luke wrote it this way, 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

Hearing the Gospel is what initiates the Holy Spirit.


NOWHERE in the Bible does it say what the Reformed claim...NOWHERE!

It's always HEARING first then the Holy Spirit.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Are you denying that God is supremely sovereign?

I am denying that you know the Word of God since most of your answers include attachments of the words/quotes/opinions of men, and none of GOD!

 

[Blain]

Please..... Give me examples of what you speak.... I do not take the Word of God lightly.


Let's all see what you find offensive, please.

Actually that would be my bad pn the scripture part my eyes are pretty bad so sometimes things blend together so I apologize for that

However if you take the word of God seriously as you say then don't use it to argue and debate in endless fruitless argument not just you but everyone. Don't forget this is a public forum that means hundreds of eyes are on us thousands of people visit this site seeking the truth seeking real community in Christ and if all they see is this ridiculous constant debating insulting mocking that is why so many run away from this place

are we thee light of his love or not? who cares who is right or wrong it isn't about us or what we think is truth it is about him and only him it is about spreading the kingdom ignighting the fire in others and it pains me to see the body going at each other so constantly

We just go from one debate to another like it is some kind of addictive high all the while we were called to make deciples we were called to bring people to Christ

if you don't take scripture lightly then prove it do what Jesus called us to do and stop this endless arguing with each other. if you use scripture usee it to teach encourage and build each other up so that in doing so those hundreds of eyes will see his light

We Christians are well known even amongst the body as hypocrites do you see unity in Christ here or do you see the division the arguing the debates the I am right you are wrong? This is not what the word of God told us to be and honestly it is shameful

Not that I am innocent of this but at least I saw what has become of us and am trying to get it through peoples heads the enemy is a master at the art of war confuse divide and conquor at some point we have to take the scales off our eyes

 

[sawdust]

However if you take the word of God seriously as you say then don't use it to argue and debate in endless fruitless argument not just you but everyone.

While I agree some of the discussions are fruitless, most I find helpful as it makes me think deeper about why I believe what I believe.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

They did not get punished for gaining knowledge of good and evil. They got punished for disobedience.

The punishment removed them from the status of unconditional love from God to becoming defective with a sin nature.
Because they now had a sin nature that required that they learn the ins and outs of what is good and evil. Knowing good and evil was needed to keep themselves from harm. Before they fell they had no concern for being harmed.

The truth is it was never suppose to happen that man was become like God knowing all knowledge of Good and evil. But anyway it happened.




But back to my original question and the point of my question.

which was,.
Question

what did adam and eve do that was deserving of something from God, right after they gained all knowledge of Good and evil, but before they covered themselves up with leaves.


There was something they did that was deserving of something from God


What was it

 

[notmyown]

Why you ask?

well, i asked because i wondered if you knew.

i'm not sure myself, but off the top of my head i can think of four or five. just wondering if there are more.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Actually that would be my bad pn the scripture part my eyes are pretty bad so sometimes things blend together so I apologize for that

However if you take the word of God seriously as you say then don't use it to argue and debate in endless fruitless argument not just you but everyone. Don't forget this is a public forum that means hundreds of eyes are on us thousands of people visit this site seeking the truth seeking real community in Christ and if all they see is this ridiculous constant debating insulting mocking that is why so many run away from this place

are we thee light of his love or not? who cares who is right or wrong it isn't about us or what we think is truth it is about him and only him it is about spreading the kingdom ignighting the fire in others and it pains me to see the body going at each other so constantly

We just go from one debate to another like it is some kind of addictive high all the while we were called to make deciples we were called to bring people to Christ

if you don't take scripture lightly then prove it do what Jesus called us to do and stop this endless arguing with each other. if you use scripture usee it to teach encourage and build each other up so that in doing so those hundreds of eyes will see his light

We Christians are well known even amongst the body as hypocrites do you see unity in Christ here or do you see the division the arguing the debates the I am right you are wrong? This is not what the word of God told us to be and honestly it is shameful

Not that I am innocent of this but at least I saw what has become of us and am trying to get it through peoples heads the enemy is a master at the art of war confuse divide and conquor at some point we have to take the scales off our eyes

I've given many bridges buddy, 😊

But so far they've all been burned.

But anyhow I'll keep giving them lol

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

... The Lord said this....

On the day you eat of the tree in dying you shall die even though you won't deserve it.

Is that better?

correct in this part 😊 he said you will surely die, he never said ye will deserve to die

As you've noticed 😊

But still i await answer to other questions

It's there if ye seek and read and look at every thing they did after gaining knowledge of Good and evil untill the lord served his punishment to them.

Even if you don't know pacifically what I'm asking, just list everything they did between theese moments. 😊

There's something that they did which was deserving of something from God.


😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

 

[Dino246]

. They where deserving of something, I know what it is, but I would rather someone else has insight first.

So you can avoid accountability.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

So you can avoid accountability.

your suggesting that not me


I'm asking a question at this stage.

Do you wish to answer.

If so don't if so do.

What your suggesting is not the question..

So once again your seeing your own object of the verb I posted.


😊😊😊😀😀☕☕

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

So you can avoid accountability.

there was something Adams and eve did, what is it, 🤔

Something they did that was deserving of something from God


It's there if ye seek and read and look at every thing they did after gaining knowledge of Good and evil untill the lord served his punishment to them.

What was it that they did.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You deny that Adam and Eve clothed themselves with fig leaves?

They clothed themselves and hid.
Now, did they deserve death?

Now I will ask you to look further into the scripture the question is what did adam and eve do just before God served punishment.

Let me ask you the question again.

there was something Adams and eve did, what is it, 🤔

Something they did that was deserving of something from God


It's there if ye seek and read and look at every thing they did after gaining knowledge of Good and evil untill the lord served his punishment to them.

What was it that they did.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The amount of none willing to answer around here is outstanding.

How on earth can we have a discussion if a person can not even answer a simple well mannered well gestured question, that even my child can answer with a warm glow on her cheeks.

 

[Blain]

I've given many bridges buddy, 😊

But so far they've all been burned.

But anyhow I'll keep giving them lol

I didn't sleep well so I am not quite there roday what do mean about bridges?