Everyone, please note carefully this exchange between Mr. Shiloh and myself. The immutability of God's essence (nature) is absolutely fatal to NR's view that man with his fallen, sinful, corrupt nature can nonetheless choose what is pleasing to God, such as exercise faith in the gospel. Since the Potter's nature/essence is immutable, then how can any NR rationally explain that his clay pots' nature differs because it's mutable, and we are able to make choices contra to our nature? We mere finite, fallible, fallen, dead creatures can do something that our Creator cannot?
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Then you are reformed. The reformation put the Bible back into the ordinary Christian's hands to learn directly from God without their understanding being mediated by a separate priesthood. Calvinists have hijacked the term to mean their configuration of doctrines that they want to impose on the Bible as a replacement priesthood.
Your reply begs the question! You and others keep ducking the central issue of HOW (in your illustration above) did "we put on the righteousness and incorruptibility and immortality of Christ"? Did we freely choose to do that while we were still dead in our sins in our unregenerate state? OR....did God raise us up from the dead so that we were able to do as you state above? Very simple question. Perhaps before answering, though, you too should avail yourself of Jer 13:23 and Rom 8:8 for starters.
You are like your Calvinistic comrades in that you keep falsely accusing me of things I have not done.
You pretend it is me who is stuck somewhere (between a rock and a hard place?) because you cannot
wrap your head around the very simple fact that I do not believe man's will is free. I have availed myself
of Scriptures that answer your question and posted them multiple times. Here, if you have eyes to see:
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
You pretend it is me who is stuck somewhere (between a rock and a hard place?) because you cannot
wrap your head around the very simple fact that I do not believe man's will is free. I have availed myself
of Scriptures that answer your question and posted them multiple times. Here, if you have eyes to see:
Jesus’ words in John 6:65
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As my Dad would say, You're kind of Special, aren't ya?
We have all stated as the Bible states from Paul's Letter, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
We HEARD the Gospel, Believed, Sealed with the Holy Spirit.
or
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God”
Luke wrote it this way, 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
Hearing the Gospel is what initiates the Holy Spirit.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it say what the Reformed claim...NOWHERE!
It's always HEARING first then the Holy Spirit.
We have all stated as the Bible states from Paul's Letter, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
We HEARD the Gospel, Believed, Sealed with the Holy Spirit.
or
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God”
Luke wrote it this way, 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
Hearing the Gospel is what initiates the Holy Spirit.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it say what the Reformed claim...NOWHERE!
It's always HEARING first then the Holy Spirit.
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Perfectly Done and Written 
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Thank you, that is very kind of you to say... I most often cite the Berean Study Bible .
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Thank you, that is very kind of you to say... I most often cite the Berean Study Bible .
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Yes, I have seen that movie (watched it many times in my early days as a Christian) and also recommend/post it for others looking for direction. I do wish they had used a different translation and there are others available, too... one of my very profound God encounters was after watching a movie on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke. My goodness, it would have been around this time of year, too! Very close/coming up to Passover, in 1988. I have written about that experience before, and it is in my introductory poem, as well...
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Here is a post I made about that encounter many Passovers ago..
Many years ago I attended an evangelical Christian church to view a showing on the life of Christ according to the gospel of Luke. I had been raised in a fairly strict Roman Catholic home, though I was not Christian at the time, and I did not know Jesus - at all. I was in a particularly hurting and broken state then, feeling like a total failure in my life and quite hopeless following, among other things, the breakdown of my marriage subsequent to multiple miscarriages, including the still birth of the child I had gotten married for. I had quit the church half my life-time before this. In fact I was quite set against organized religion, and could not be said to be partial to the Bible in any meaningful way, and yet I was curious to know Who Jesus was, even as I was running from God in rebellion and defiance. I consider myself to have been very lost at that time from my present perspective, but God knew exactly where I was.
During my short time at that church to see the movie (which was being shown in two parts over two Saturday evenings around Passover), and attend a couple of Sunday services, I experienced a Divine intervention/encounter which has become part of my personal testimony.
At some point after watching the movie, I experienced an entire body, mind, and soul experience of God's infilling, being bathed in the Light of His unconditional love and forgiveness for me, and all I had done, realizing all the ways I had messed up my life, all my failings, failures, and mistakes, was seen within His absolute knowledge and understanding of how and why I had become the person I was, illuminated in the Light of His unconditional love and total forgiveness. I felt the fullness, strength, and depth of His love so profoundly, I wept uncontrollably, because I also felt so broken and lost and beyond redemption... and most of all, I felt unworthy.
Though I cherished in my heart the experience of knowing I was loved and forgiven by God (which probably went a long way to saving my life at the time), I did not believe in "that" God, and went on my way from that life-saving experience thinking it was too bad it happened in a church. I had begun a spiritual seeking phase, and carried on in that for another fifteen years, until God once again revealed Himself to me and clearly called me out of what I was doing with another profound and earth-shattering divine intervention, which completely turned my world upside down. Still, even after that clear calling out, my stiff-necked stubbornness was so set against religion, the Bible, and Him, that it took another year following the calling out for me to lay down my opposition and fully surrender my life to Him.
Many years ago I attended an evangelical Christian church to view a showing on the life of Christ according to the gospel of Luke. I had been raised in a fairly strict Roman Catholic home, though I was not Christian at the time, and I did not know Jesus - at all. I was in a particularly hurting and broken state then, feeling like a total failure in my life and quite hopeless following, among other things, the breakdown of my marriage subsequent to multiple miscarriages, including the still birth of the child I had gotten married for. I had quit the church half my life-time before this. In fact I was quite set against organized religion, and could not be said to be partial to the Bible in any meaningful way, and yet I was curious to know Who Jesus was, even as I was running from God in rebellion and defiance. I consider myself to have been very lost at that time from my present perspective, but God knew exactly where I was.
During my short time at that church to see the movie (which was being shown in two parts over two Saturday evenings around Passover), and attend a couple of Sunday services, I experienced a Divine intervention/encounter which has become part of my personal testimony.
At some point after watching the movie, I experienced an entire body, mind, and soul experience of God's infilling, being bathed in the Light of His unconditional love and forgiveness for me, and all I had done, realizing all the ways I had messed up my life, all my failings, failures, and mistakes, was seen within His absolute knowledge and understanding of how and why I had become the person I was, illuminated in the Light of His unconditional love and total forgiveness. I felt the fullness, strength, and depth of His love so profoundly, I wept uncontrollably, because I also felt so broken and lost and beyond redemption... and most of all, I felt unworthy.
Though I cherished in my heart the experience of knowing I was loved and forgiven by God (which probably went a long way to saving my life at the time), I did not believe in "that" God, and went on my way from that life-saving experience thinking it was too bad it happened in a church. I had begun a spiritual seeking phase, and carried on in that for another fifteen years, until God once again revealed Himself to me and clearly called me out of what I was doing with another profound and earth-shattering divine intervention, which completely turned my world upside down. Still, even after that clear calling out, my stiff-necked stubbornness was so set against religion, the Bible, and Him, that it took another year following the calling out for me to lay down my opposition and fully surrender my life to Him.
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