DON'T take the Mark!
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Paul says we are gathered at the Coming
of our Lord.
Paul says the wicked is consumed by the brightness of our Lords coming.
One coming Paul's speaks of.
2 Thes 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
of our Lord.
Paul says the wicked is consumed by the brightness of our Lords coming.
One coming Paul's speaks of.
2 Thes 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
I have tried to distinguish between the Church (as present on earth before the Rapture) and the Tribulation Saints (primarily converted Jews but perhaps many Gentiles during the reign of the Antichrist ) who will hear the Gospel from the two prophets and become believers. They will not take the mark, and will be beheaded (Rev 20). But the entire Church will not be present at that time.
The Tribulation Saints will be resurrected and also live and reign with Christ after His Second Coming (along with the Church) as noted in Revelation 20. Both Daniel and Revelation say that the Antichrist makes war with the "saints", and in Daniel it is a reference to Jewish saints. In Revelation it could be both Jews and Gentiles.
At the same time God preserves a believing remnant of Israel in the wilderness, so we are to take all these prophecies together. The only real point I have been making is that there is a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which pertains to the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride. We do not have enough details about all these other things to be definitive.
The Tribulation Saints will be resurrected and also live and reign with Christ after His Second Coming (along with the Church) as noted in Revelation 20. Both Daniel and Revelation say that the Antichrist makes war with the "saints", and in Daniel it is a reference to Jewish saints. In Revelation it could be both Jews and Gentiles.
At the same time God preserves a believing remnant of Israel in the wilderness, so we are to take all these prophecies together. The only real point I have been making is that there is a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which pertains to the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride. We do not have enough details about all these other things to be definitive.
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That is a misunderstanding . That passage should have "the day of the Lord" rather than "the day of Christ" (the day of the Rapture). Almost all the other translations have "the day of the Lord". So the sequence of events is:
1. The Rapture (before the Tribulation.
2. The revelation and reign of the Antichrist, the Tribulation period, and the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation.
3. The day of the Lord (corresponding to the Great Tribulation and triggered by the Abomination).
MATTHEW 24: THE CONNECTION
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand), 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:... 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
According to Revelation 7, the Greek has "the tribulation, the great" so calling it "the Great Tribulation" is valid. This is in the last half of Daniel's 70th week, since the first half of 3 1/2 years is assigned to the Antichrist.
1. The Rapture (before the Tribulation.
2. The revelation and reign of the Antichrist, the Tribulation period, and the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation.
3. The day of the Lord (corresponding to the Great Tribulation and triggered by the Abomination).
MATTHEW 24: THE CONNECTION
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand), 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:... 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
According to Revelation 7, the Greek has "the tribulation, the great" so calling it "the Great Tribulation" is valid. This is in the last half of Daniel's 70th week, since the first half of 3 1/2 years is assigned to the Antichrist.
Why do you feel you need to be taken out of the world when only the saints in Israel are persecuted by the Beast?
Makes no sense at all.Besides ,Jesus asked God to not take his followers out of the world ,but to keep them from evil.Not only does your doctrine contradict Jesus ,it doesn't even make sense that Christ would come and take you out of the world while his followers are being killed.
John 17:15
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
Jesus doest even want anyone taken out of the world.He just wants them protected from the devil.
Makes no sense at all.Besides ,Jesus asked God to not take his followers out of the world ,but to keep them from evil.Not only does your doctrine contradict Jesus ,it doesn't even make sense that Christ would come and take you out of the world while his followers are being killed.
John 17:15
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
Jesus doest even want anyone taken out of the world.He just wants them protected from the devil.
This is not a matter of "feeling" but of FACT. God and Christ never planned for the Church to face the Tribulation or the Great Tribulation (a period of wrath and divine judgments). Therefore Daniel and Jeremiah refer strictly to the Jewish people in connection with the Tribulation.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [the Jews] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's [Israel's] trouble [tribulation]; but he shall be saved out of it. (Jer 30:7)
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [the Jews] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's [Israel's] trouble [tribulation]; but he shall be saved out of it. (Jer 30:7)
Revelation 20:7-9
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
The saints and the beloved city are surrounded by the enemy and that is after the thousand years are completed.
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
The saints and the beloved city are surrounded by the enemy and that is after the thousand years are completed.
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So you believe the church has never faced tribulation.Christians have faced tribulation for 2000 years now but you say the church doesn't face tribulation
John wrote revelation in prison and sent it to the churches in tribulation.
Revelation1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Jesus even tells us we will have tribulation in the world.
John 16:33
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
And you still say Jesus Is wrong.
Most of the Churches tribulation has come from those claiming to be Christian. The RCC spent hundreds of years trying to thwart any movement different than their own. And even though the Catholic institution has been such a tremendous form of evil, it did not arise from the sea and the whole world be amazed at it.
So, who is the Beast to you, since you type as if it's been ruling all of these years?
So, who is the Beast to you, since you type as if it's been ruling all of these years?
The exact same people Jesus said would persecute his saints in Israel.Israels leaders in Jerusalem.
Mathew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Jesus said his followers would be beaten in the synagogues and persecuted throughout all of israels cities right up to the day he comes.
Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
And if I hadn't mentioned it before now,his followers won't be able to buy anything for 3.5 years untill he comes.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Mathew 23:34
Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Jesus said his followers would be beaten in the synagogues and persecuted throughout all of israels cities right up to the day he comes.
Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
And if I hadn't mentioned it before now,his followers won't be able to buy anything for 3.5 years untill he comes.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
NO, they are mistaken and are in error but that does not mean they are a liar if they really think that even though it's in error.
You gotta be careful with accusing people of being liars lest someone follow you around to find something you say that's wrong and claim you are intentionally lying and being malicious towards others like you are doing to this guy.
Just tell him he is mistaken and move on.
No, it's what the scripture says. Take it or leave it.
If leaving it, don't forget to rip 2nd Thessalonians out of your Bible.
That's plausible considering the Jewish people are still rejecting Jesus as their Messiah
That's totally faulty and should be flushed down the toilet!
It ain't nuthin but pre-tribber propaganda
*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)
Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed
This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power
Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.
NO, they are mistaken and are in error but that does not mean they are a liar if they really think that even though it's in error.
You gotta be careful with accusing people of being liars lest someone follow you around to find something you say that's wrong and claim you are intentionally lying and being malicious towards others like you are doing to this guy.
Just tell him he is mistaken and move on.
No, it's what the scripture says. Take it or leave it.
If leaving it, don't forget to rip 2nd Thessalonians out of your Bible.
That's plausible considering the Jewish people are still rejecting Jesus as their Messiah
That's totally faulty and should be flushed down the toilet!
It ain't nuthin but pre-tribber propaganda
*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)
Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed
This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power
Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.
You gotta be careful with accusing people of being liars lest someone follow you around to find something you say that's wrong and claim you are intentionally lying and being malicious towards others like you are doing to this guy.
Just tell him he is mistaken and move on.
No, it's what the scripture says. Take it or leave it.
If leaving it, don't forget to rip 2nd Thessalonians out of your Bible.
That's plausible considering the Jewish people are still rejecting Jesus as their Messiah
That's totally faulty and should be flushed down the toilet!
It ain't nuthin but pre-tribber propaganda
*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)
Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed
This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power
Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.