Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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The sacrifice of Jesus Christ has no effect on the nonelect.
I don't trust any single version -- whether it be Formal Equivalency or Dynamic Equivalency Translation (the NIV being this latter type). This is why I personally use multiple versions before arriving at a conclusion. And each of the above have their pros and cons, by the way. Neither of them are perfect. Something is often lost in a translation and this is why there are so many translations out there. The first type of translation is a more literal type which is often helpful but at the same time literal translations can be very "wooden" -- tough to understand the sense. Whereas the DE translations lean in the opposite direction, for the goal of the language experts is to capture the sense of the text to escape the wooden, rigid literal.
And you should learn to interpret in context. There's clearly two contrasting groups in Jn 3:16ff.
Seems we have modern “scribes” that don’t like the Truth of God’s Word and therefore, they just feel free to change it and even leave words out, etc.
Now, you're catching on. For the rigid, wooden literal is often difficult to understand. However, such translations are often helpful because they capture what the Dynamic Equivalency translations don't. There is no single perfect translation. Are you happy now? (Rhetorical question.)
EXACTLY! And there are numerous other examples in scripture that teach the truth of Isa 26:9-10. Take Israel's Wilderness experience. How many times was God extremely graciously to those stiff-necked, rebellious, unbelieving Israelites, and yet they still refused to trust him!? Finally, after the golden calf incident, God punished an entire generation by killing them!
Or take Moses' encounter with Pharaoh. How many times did God show grace to Pharaoh by bringing an end to an plague? But did that soften the king's heart or harden it?
Yes! The unbelievers are the ones "already condemned" which is why AT THAT TIME of Jesus' visitation, he could say he did not come to judge the world. His only mission at that time was to save the world of the elect.
Makes sense to me.
Now…. the thing I disagree with is that I believe that the “already condemned” are those who did not choose Christ before the foundation of the world.
What do you have against the most best-selling Bible? It is a superb translation, developed and refined by very capable Biblical scholars with an excellent knowledge of both the Bible languages and modern English.
…but if the Elect were already predestined for salvation, why did Jesus come to die for them? They were already Elect. ?
You are absolutely wrong. Christ's sacrifice was/is for everyone. If it has no effect on some people, the problem is with them, not God.
Because He needed to fulfill the terms of the new covenant. That includes living a perfectly righteous life so that His righteousness could be imputed to us, and to shed His blood on our behalf to satisfy God's wrath against us because of our sin.
YUP!
And right here we can clearly see what God's intentions were for all mankind when we go back to Gen 3:15! It was never God's intention to save the ungodly seed of the serpent or for the woman's godly seed (ultimately Christ) to die for the serpent's ungodly seed. We can know this because God decreed eternal ENMITY between both seeds! And that enmity between the ungodly extends to all the godly IN Christ, for those in Christ have no fellowship or friendship with the world that is ruled by the serpent (Satan). At the same time, however, we should understand that all God's elect have come into this world with several strikes against them. The elect, in fact differ in no way from the non-elect (see Rom 9:19-21) -- that is to say UNTIL the Potter intervened on their behalf in eternity.
1. Guilty of personal sin
2. Guilty of original sin
3. Came into this world in Adam
4. As a result, Born [spiritually] stillborn, i.e. dead
5. And because of this separation from God spiritually hostile and antagonistic toward him and his Son.
Therefore, the Last Adam, the instrument of God's mediation, came into this world to UNDO all the First Adam's catastrophic damage! This is why Jesus had to lay down his life for the elect [sinners], for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins (Heb 9:22). So, the great paradox here is that by eternal divine decree the elect were always the woman's seed in one sense; yet when they entered this world they entered as the serpent's ungodly seed, i.e. in Adam, for all of us inherited his sin nature. Therefore, in space and time they were actually justified in Christ (as the godly seed they were ordained to be) when they were born again, which occurred when they placed their trust in Christ.
But why would Jesus die for people who the Father never intended to save -- for those whom the Father would never give to his Son, and THEREFORE, would never come to the Son? Since Jesus came to "save his people", why would he die for those who were never ordained to be his people? Did you read my 2142?