"You will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people . . ."

[2ndTimothyGroup]

All opinions welcome . . . rude people, not so much.

I'm not one for turning to commentaries, but would rather turn to people whom I can ask questions and clarify. Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.) I cannot find a way to make this fit with the primary contexts of the Bible . . . help!

Matthew 23:34-36 NLT - "Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time--from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation."

 

[LeeLoving]

The KJV reads differently,

Matthew 23:34-36 (KJV)

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

I think their blood would be on them because they will kill these people just like those people were killed. Sort of like the guilt for those murders follows them to these because they will be doing something similar.

 

[Dino246]

The judgment upon Israel for all their murder and idolatry fell upon that generation. That judgment came at the hand of the Romans around 70 AD, fulfilling the prophecies that Jesus had spoken.

It doesn't mean that generation was directly guilty, but that by doing the same things (killing John, Jesus, Stephen, etc.) they were standing with those who had killed the prophets and godly people of previous generations. The phrase, "upon you may come all the righteous blood" (KJV) might not be used today, but a similar phrase is: "Their blood is on your hands". It's the same principle.

 

[Cameron143]

The judgment upon Israel for all their murder and idolatry fell upon that generation. That judgment came at the hand of the Romans around 70 AD, fulfilling the prophecies that Jesus had spoken.

It doesn't mean that generation was directly guilty, but that by doing the same things (killing John, Jesus, Stephen, etc.) they were standing with those who had killed the prophets and godly people of previous generations. The phrase, "upon you may come all the righteous blood" (KJV) might not be used today, but a similar phrase is: "Their blood is on your hands". It's the same principle.

It was that generation that completed or filled up the measure of sin that God had allotted. The fulness of time...and sin...was come.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I don't believe the blood of the prophets and apostles has ceased to be spilled in the land of Israel myself so I don't believe this generation has ceased as well.


Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



If the blood of the prophets and apostles who have been killed for their testimony has been avenged on a former generation ,then they would not be asking to be avenged after the fifth seal is opened.

They must wait untill the their breathren must be killed as they were before they will be avenged.


This leads me to believe the generation jesus is speaking of as being guilty of their blood is still with us on earth.



Just something to consider.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All opinions welcome . . . rude people, not so much.

I'm not one for turning to commentaries, but would rather turn to people whom I can ask questions and clarify. Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.) I cannot find a way to make this fit with the primary contexts of the Bible . . . help!

Matthew 23:34-36 NLT - "Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time--from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation."

It’s the culmination of all he had been saying in the Old Testament he kept warning them over and over but they kept rejecting him and creating false prophets to make them think they wood never be held to his warnings it’s exactly what the law warned israel of if they broke his covenant

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It was that generation that completed or filled up the measure of sin that God had allotted. The fulness of time...and sin...was come.

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its all written in the ot the continual warnings from God to repent went in answered and the warnings came forth . It’s the abomination that caused thier desolation they accused Jesus of blasphemy and had him crucified

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“When ye see Jerusalem encompassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. “Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

The ot prophets foretell all of it it was time for it to come to pass juet as your saying the last straw was when they rejected and killed Jesus that left then desolate they rejected thre life God gave

 

[Dino246]

This leads me to believe the generation jesus is speaking of as being guilty of their blood is still with us on earth.

I challenge you to find three uses of ‘this generation’ in Scripture that clearly don’t refer to people alive at that time.

 

[montana123]

All opinions welcome . . . rude people, not so much.

I'm not one for turning to commentaries, but would rather turn to people whom I can ask questions and clarify. Therefore, in the Scripture below, why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men? (And women - throwing that in.) I cannot find a way to make this fit with the primary contexts of the Bible . . . help!

Matthew 23:34-36 NLT - "Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time--from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation."

They are responsible for all the deaths of the godly people in the past because of their behavior that is the same as the people in the past that went against godly people.

In other words they are in the same boat with the same attitude so they are of the same cloth.

For they also go against the godly people as the people in the past went against the godly people.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It is the same as here which Babylon is responsible for the death of the prophets, and the saints, and all that was slain upon Earth.

The Bible says Babylon will never have physical dominion again but her ways are still on Earth which this is Babylon in spirit which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man which is what the beast kingdom is about.

The truth is there is only 2 kingdoms on Earth the kingdom of God, and Babylon, and you either belong to the kingdom of God, or Babylon.

So if you are not part of the kingdom of God then you belong to Babylon and are responsible for same behavior as all those who did not love the truth represented by Babylon, the kingdom of man.

Those at Jesus' time that went against the godly people were responsible for the murder of all the people that people of the same behavior has done.

The same as the Babylon is responsible for the death of all slain upon Earth for they have the same behavior as those that done the same in the past which they all belong to the kingdom of man.

White guilt is a meaningless term that only arrogant black people would say to exalt themselves for common sense says it is wrong.

And no person is guilty for the sins of other people for that is their sins.

But if a person agrees with the slavery of the past in America then it would seem like they would be responsible for it for they are of the same cloth as those that agreed with slavery.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I challenge you to find three uses of ‘this generation’ in Scripture that clearly don’t refer to people alive at that time.

The word itself can mean various things.
It can simply mean men of the same stock.



Word: genea
Pronounce: ghen-eh-ah'
Strongs Number: G1074
Orig: from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time. G1085
Use: TDNT-1:662,114 Noun Feminine
Heb Strong: H410 H1755 H2233 H2567 H3117 H3211 H4940 H5971 H7256 H8029

1. 1) fathered, birth, nativity
   2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
   2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
   2b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
   2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
   3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
   4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years

But if you trying to say that revelation 6 has already been fulfilled then I would have to disagree .Jesus said his followers would be persecuted throughout the cities of Israel till he comes.



Do you have any proof the end has already passed and Jesus has come?
If so ,can you inform everyone what date Jesus came so everyone will know that his second advent has already been fulfilled?




Mathew 10

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[DRobinson]

The judgment upon Israel for all their murder and idolatry fell upon that generation. That judgment came at the hand of the Romans around 70 AD, fulfilling the prophecies that Jesus had spoken.

It doesn't mean that generation was directly guilty, but that by doing the same things (killing John, Jesus, Stephen, etc.) they were standing with those who had killed the prophets and godly people of previous generations. The phrase, "upon you may come all the righteous blood" (KJV) might not be used today, but a similar phrase is: "Their blood is on your hands". It's the same principle.

May I add that this generation is the one who rejected and crucified the Messiah God had promised.
That was their greatest sin.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

May I add that this generation is the one who rejected and crucified the Messiah God had promised.
That was their greatest sin.

amen it was the last straw and culmination of thier rebellion against god the last and greatest offense by which all men will be judged or saved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I challenge you to find three uses of ‘this generation’ in Scripture that clearly don’t refer to people alive at that time.

yes i think thats what the phrase means when we say this generation it means the generation being spoken of

The KJV reads differently,

Matthew 23:34-36 (KJV)

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

I think their blood would be on them because they will kill these people just like those people were killed. Sort of like the guilt for those murders follows them to these because they will be doing something similar.

amen and its what they did to the early church and apostles before rome destroyed jerusalem in ad70
just as they as a nation had done continually to his prophets in the old testament see'' jerusalem o jerusalem i have longed to gather you under my wing but you were not willing'' as well as hes referring backwards to the ot also ""all day long i hold out my hand to an obstinate rebellious stiff necked people who though hearing they understand nothing and seeing they perceive nothing '

 

[Dino246]

The word itself can mean various things.
It can simply mean men of the same stock.



Word: genea
Pronounce: ghen-eh-ah'
Strongs Number: G1074
Orig: from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time. G1085
Use: TDNT-1:662,114 Noun Feminine
Heb Strong: H410 H1755 H2233 H2567 H3117 H3211 H4940 H5971 H7256 H8029

1. 1) fathered, birth, nativity
   2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
   2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
   2b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
   2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
   3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
   4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years

But if you trying to say that revelation 6 has already been fulfilled then I would have to disagree .Jesus said his followers would be persecuted throughout the cities of Israel till he comes.



Do you have any proof the end has already passed and Jesus has come?
If so ,can you inform everyone what date Jesus came so everyone will know that his second advent has already been fulfilled?




Mathew 10

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

That was a scholarly but unsuccessful attempt at a sidestep. Three examples, please.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...why will Jesus hold the current body of Jewish rulers and authorities responsible for the deaths of previous Prophets and Holy men?

That was not addressed to the "current" Jewish rulers, but to the ones at that time.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The KJV reads differently,

Matthew 23:34-36 (KJV)

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

I think their blood would be on them because they will kill these people just like those people were killed. Sort of like the guilt for those murders follows them to these because they will be doing something similar.

Hey there! What do you think of Ezekiel Chapter 18? In the Story of God, this Chapter marks an interesting moment in Jewish life, for it repeatedly states that the one who sins is the one who is responsible. This Chapter made it clear that the Generational Curse came to an end.

What do you think?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It was that generation that completed or filled up the measure of sin that God had allotted. The fulness of time...and sin...was come.

That's interesting. I've never heard of this before. Are you willing to expand on those thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I don't believe the blood of the prophets and apostles has ceased to be spilled in the land of Israel myself so I don't believe this generation has ceased as well.


Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



If the blood of the prophets and apostles who have been killed for their testimony has been avenged on a former generation ,then they would not be asking to be avenged after the fifth seal is opened.

They must wait untill the their breathren must be killed as they were before they will be avenged.


This leads me to believe the generation jesus is speaking of as being guilty of their blood is still with us on earth.



Just something to consider.

Your knowledge of Eschatology leaves me in the dust. That said, I THINK I am able to track with you a little bit. I was also curious about the length of term of that "generation."

Thanks!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It’s the culmination of all he had been saying in the Old Testament he kept warning them over and over but they kept rejecting him and creating false prophets to make them think they wood never be held to his warnings it’s exactly what the law warned israel of if they broke his covenant

Very interesting, thank you so much. Nice to see you again.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

They are responsible for all the deaths of the godly people in the past because of their behavior that is the same as the people in the past that went against godly people.

In other words they are in the same boat with the same attitude so they are of the same cloth.

For they also go against the godly people as the people in the past went against the godly people.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It is the same as here which Babylon is responsible for the death of the prophets, and the saints, and all that was slain upon Earth.

The Bible says Babylon will never have physical dominion again but her ways are still on Earth which this is Babylon in spirit which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man which is what the beast kingdom is about.

The truth is there is only 2 kingdoms on Earth the kingdom of God, and Babylon, and you either belong to the kingdom of God, or Babylon.

So if you are not part of the kingdom of God then you belong to Babylon and are responsible for same behavior as all those who did not love the truth represented by Babylon, the kingdom of man.

Those at Jesus' time that went against the godly people were responsible for the murder of all the people that people of the same behavior has done.

The same as the Babylon is responsible for the death of all slain upon Earth for they have the same behavior as those that done the same in the past which they all belong to the kingdom of man.

White guilt is a meaningless term that only arrogant black people would say to exalt themselves for common sense says it is wrong.

And no person is guilty for the sins of other people for that is their sins.

But if a person agrees with the slavery of the past in America then it would seem like they would be responsible for it for they are of the same cloth as those that agreed with slavery.

You offered some neat ideas. What you wrote caused me to realize that I was viewing this passage as Christ saying the entire lot of guilt is placed upon that generation, meaning that the previous generations were to somehow have avoided their guilt/responsibility. But I think that you're saying that they are just as guilty as those of the past. Forgive me if I didn't get that right.