Women Pastors

[Dino246]

That is simply not true. Who other than male pastor/elder/bishops were given leadership authority in the churches? Women are CLEARLY forbidden to preach, teach, or usurp (unlawfully assume) authority in the churches. And Scripture says so plainly. But I suffer [allow] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:12) On the surface this sounds as though Paul is the one responsible for this teaching, but the context here (and in other related passages) makes it clear that these are instructions from God going back to Eve and her being deceived and thus disobeying God.

Wrong. Simply wrong. The context is about new (female) Christians who came out of gnostic cults. It makes far better sense and doesn't violate Paul's related teaching.

 

[Dino246]

Does your church have women in leadership? That's the only reason that I can think of to make you argue the point! If that is so, maybe you should consider a new church!

Yes, in some roles, but I am not making my case to defend my congregation's practice, as I held these views long before beginning to attend there.

Perhaps you should stop attending the Church of the Unwarranted Assumption.

 

[BillyBob]

Wrong. Simply wrong. The context is about new (female) Christians who came out of gnostic cults.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Dino246]

Chapter and verse, please.

That information requires extra-biblical research, not "chapter and verse".

 

[BillyBob]

That information requires extra-biblical research, not "chapter and verse".

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Does your church have women in leadership? That's the only reason that I can think of to make you argue the point! If that is so, maybe you should consider a new church!

I have women in my family that are ordained thank you very much. They were preaching and teaching the Word where no male was available. Then my uncle and his wife were ordained together. If you believe God would punish a woman for that I'd say you are legalistic and don't understand the Word. If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon, surely He can use a woman.

I believe when the husband is called the wife is called. They should be ordained together. It would help a lot with family and marriage counseling in the church. And heaven knows we need more Christian family and marriage counseling. The wife could speak on special occasions. I've seen too many pastors lose their marriage because they were counseling a woman alone. I've seen horrible advice given to wives because the counseling was from a mans pov. only. I think it would be a great help to the church.

 

[BillyBob]

I have women in my family that are ordained thank you very much. They were preaching and teaching the Word where no male was available. Then my uncle and his wife were ordained together. If you believe God would punish a woman for that I'd say you are legalistic and don't understand the Word. If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon, surely He can use a woman.

I believe when the husband is called the wife is called. They should be ordained together. It would help a lot with family and marriage counseling in the church. And heaven knows we need more Christian family and marriage counseling. The wife could speak on special occasions. I've seen too many pastors lose their marriage because they were counseling a woman alone. I've seen horrible advice given to wives because the counseling was from a mans pov. only. I think it would be a great help to the church.

I am not arguing as to whether you think it is right or wrong. I'm just saying the Bible restricted these offices to men only. As I said earlier, there are many women who have more knowledge than the men around them. But, that does not mean that God approves their leadership over men.

I do not pretend to know God's reason for this!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

We know and understand the Bible is the Inspired word of God. We also know that writers used many examples in their writings that related to the trials they were in, the customs of the Law, the customs of when they were in slavery or occupied especially by the Romans. Look at the examples of Jesus feeding the 5,000 and the 4,000. It only list men because women and children were considered PROPERTY at that time.

Even when Timothy was written women and children were PROPERTY.
So these verses only indicate the customs of the times and not the literal Will of God.

If Timothy was written today, women and children are no longer legally PROPERTY. I bet the requirement to preach would have been written differently. It's obvious in this thread that "no one" has considered why women were not allowed to preach in Timothy's day, seeing they were basically SLAVES to the husband. No slave is able to preach male or female. Women are no longer SLAVES to their husbands.

 

[Snackersmom]

1. If a man has been married and his wife dies, that is not even an issue. He was married to begin with. A bishop [overseer] then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Tim 3:2) Offering hospitality would generally involve the wife.

So the simple act of tying the knot, even if it's only for one day and then the wife dies, is required for a man to be a pastor? And since it says ONE wife, I assume that means he can never remarry? Please help me here, I was born without a Y chromosome so obviously I'm a little confused, I always thought that verse was saying not to let a polygamist be a pastor?????

2. The apostles were not pastor/elder/bishops in local churches. God is giving instructions for the leadership in local assemblies. The apostles were essentially missionaries, traveling to different parts. But as Paul said all the other apostles were in fact married! He himself may have been a widower, since early marriage was the norm in Jewish society.

I don't recall a verse that says all the other apostles were married, I know Peter was but please let me know where it says that about the others because I'm genuinely curious. There is no mention of Timothy being married, he was sent to oversee the church at Ephesus and it does not sound like he was traveling around

3. Paul was speaking in a certain context about it being better to remain single. At the same time he said that marriage is honorable in all. And the Bible is very clear that the married state is preferable for the majority of people. That is what God ordained in Genesis 1.

I do agree with that statement, so *fistbump*

 

[Karlon]

Did you know that God's Word teaches that only men can be anointed / called to be pastors, deacons, church leaders?
Woman can assist and help in ministry, but the are not called by the Lord to be church leaders.

It's in the new testament for all the see:

Qualifications for Ministry

1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Bishop - Strongs G1985
a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): KJV -- bishop, overseer.

Deacons - Strongs G1249
from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon): KJV -- deacon, minister, servant.

Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

1 Timothy 2:12,13
I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Paul bases his viewpoint on creation. In v. 13 he says, "For Adam was first created, then Eve." In the least, this argument shows that Paul is not restricting his treatment to the church; it's a matter that is grounded in the constitutional differences between men and women, or at least in the order of authority that God had ordained.

In Gen 2-3, we see an interesting phenomenon relevant to 1 Tim 2. God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, would bring deception and ruin due to not following the ways of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:12 - Almost every commentator says that women should not pastor or teach over men. The argument the Apostle Paul gives for his statement "I do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man" is found in the following 2 verses. His argument is actually not from culture as some claim but from creation.

The validity of his argument and the weight of this statement plants its roots in the creation order. Which means that the statement he makes regarding women not teaching over men (essentially pastoring) stands for all-time and to all cultures everywhere, because he doesn’t appeal to culture for his reasons but the creation ORDER which is simply honoring the way God decided to create.

plainly stated, women are not to be pastors in any case. even if there is a shortage of male pastors. in that case, everyone should pray to Jesus for a male pastor to come along. the above is quite explicit & true. NO WOMEN PASTORS!

 

[SunshineGirl]

Why not? You also can spread the gospel to everybody!

That's good to know as I help teach the children at church.
During lockdown (covid) me and my two daughters made our home like church. We would come together a few times a week and read, pray and sing to the Lord 🥰

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I am not arguing as to whether you think it is right or wrong. I'm just saying the Bible restricted these offices to men only. As I said earlier, there are many women who have more knowledge than the men around them. But, that does not mean that God approves their leadership over men.

I do not pretend to know God's reason for this!

I'd agree that should be the norm, but I don't believe God would rather see a church shuttered up because a male preacher couldn't be found. I simply don't see where that is right. Again I think that is being legalistic. Same with people on the board. Not always enough males to serve. I've traveled lots of country churches where many of the males had gone home or were too ill to attend. Most everything in the church was run by the women. If you think God would say " No men, well shut that thing down"! I simply don't believe that.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

plainly stated, women are not to be pastors in any case. even if there is a shortage of male pastors. in that case, everyone should pray to Jesus for a male pastor to come along. the above is quite explicit & true. NO WOMEN PASTORS!

So again, if a church cannot find a male pastor and a woman is ordained you believe God would say lock up the church and sell it rather than a woman preach. Again, I would agree the ideal is a male preacher. But in some of these small country churches women pretty much run the church. I know, I have attended these types of churches. If you believe God would rather see a church locked and sold rather than families having Sunday school and a place to bring their family to just because of a woman pastor, that is pure legalism.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

plainly stated, women are not to be pastors in any case. even if there is a shortage of male pastors. in that case, everyone should pray to Jesus for a male pastor to come along. the above is quite explicit & true. NO WOMEN PASTORS!

do people realize a pastor is a Sheppard.

While a Bishop is something else?

 

[John146]

That information requires extra-biblical research, not "chapter and verse".

Chapter and verse please

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have women in my family that are ordained thank you very much. They were preaching and teaching the Word where no male was available. Then my uncle and his wife were ordained together. If you believe God would punish a woman for that I'd say you are legalistic and don't understand the Word. If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon, surely He can use a woman.

I believe when the husband is called the wife is called. They should be ordained together. It would help a lot with family and marriage counseling in the church. And heaven knows we need more Christian family and marriage counseling. The wife could speak on special occasions. I've seen too many pastors lose their marriage because they were counseling a woman alone. I've seen horrible advice given to wives because the counseling was from a mans pov. only. I think it would be a great help to the church.

That happens in the home group0s at my church. the leaders are couples who lead the various mens groups or lady groups.

 

[selahsays]

Methinks we have some very insecure males here.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

- Acts 2:17-21

 

[selahsays]

@Stan_the_Man

Just wondering about your avatar…. Looks evil. ….. and your username is just one letter short of who your avatar looks like. I don’t like it. ….just saying.

 

[Dino246]

Chapter and verse please

I see there are (at least) two who can't read.

 

[Dino246]

The scriptures posted speak for themselves. A deacon, pastor, church leader must be the husband of one wife. Pretty hard to misunderstand that

There isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that says a pastor must be the husband of one wife. Same goes for a church leader.