Why didn’t Jonah just jump off the boat?
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Luke 16:19-31 tells of three men in the afterlife. The story is alleged to be
one of several New Testament parables: which are stories variously regarded
as fact and/or fiction.
A problem with the fiction view is Abraham. He's an historical person; plus
he's said to be one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8) Well; the story quotes
Abraham a number of times. It seems inappropriate to me that a Bible story
would quote an important historical figure saying things that he didn't really
say.
The fiction view also alleges that the Greek word haides in verse 23 pertains
to the rich man's grave. Well; we can be reasonably certain that Abraham is
dead and buried (Gen 25:8-10) so I have to wonder how these two men's
dead bodies communicated with each other through solid ground from grave
to grave.
Plus; dead bodies typically exhibit no mental activity; and have lost the use
of their five natural senses of taste, touch, sight, hearing, and smell. Yet in
death, the rich man appears fully sentient, viz: he is able to feel heat from
the flames around him, he is in misery due to dehydration, he is able to see
across a chasm to where Abraham is located, and he is said to experience
anxiety relative to the possibility of five brothers joining him in rather
unpleasant circumstances.
The third man's name is given as Lazarus. It appears from the language and
grammar of the story that Lazarus' angelic transportation buried his corpse
alongside Abraham's corpse, i.e. he and Abraham appear to be sharing the
same grave. But the man was a diseased pauper in life so it's extremely
doubtful his remains were given any kind of a funeral at all let alone
alongside a sacred patriarch; but instead his remains were likely incinerated
in a community landfill.
Ergo: the fiction view is untenable; it won't even hold up under the scrutiny
of common sense; let alone the stretch of one's imagination.
_
Luke 16:19-31 tells of three men in the afterlife. The story is alleged to be
one of several New Testament parables: which are stories variously regarded
as fact and/or fiction.
A problem with the fiction view is Abraham. He's an historical person; plus
he's said to be one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8) Well; the story quotes
Abraham a number of times. It seems inappropriate to me that a Bible story
would quote an important historical figure saying things that he didn't really
say.
The fiction view also alleges that the Greek word haides in verse 23 pertains
to the rich man's grave. Well; we can be reasonably certain that Abraham is
dead and buried (Gen 25:8-10) so I have to wonder how these two men's
dead bodies communicated with each other through solid ground from grave
to grave.
Plus; dead bodies typically exhibit no mental activity; and have lost the use
of their five natural senses of taste, touch, sight, hearing, and smell. Yet in
death, the rich man appears fully sentient, viz: he is able to feel heat from
the flames around him, he is in misery due to dehydration, he is able to see
across a chasm to where Abraham is located, and he is said to experience
anxiety relative to the possibility of five brothers joining him in rather
unpleasant circumstances.
The third man's name is given as Lazarus. It appears from the language and
grammar of the story that Lazarus' angelic transportation buried his corpse
alongside Abraham's corpse, i.e. he and Abraham appear to be sharing the
same grave. But the man was a diseased pauper in life so it's extremely
doubtful his remains were given any kind of a funeral at all let alone
alongside a sacred patriarch; but instead his remains were likely incinerated
in a community landfill.
Ergo: the fiction view is untenable; it won't even hold up under the scrutiny
of common sense; let alone the stretch of one's imagination.
_
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Nowhere in scripture does it tells us that he died and was raised from the dead.
Crying out from sheol was him saying he was in a living hell stuck in the belly of the whale that kept farting
Plus, some of the modern translations say it was a transgender whale which makes it even more disgusting!
They all about saving the transgender whales these days ya know
@Stan_the_Man
as an aside,
fun fact you might be interested in..
https://www.scuba.com/blog/the-wonderfully-wacky-world-underwater-do-fish-fart/
fish don't actually fart.
as an aside,
fun fact you might be interested in..
https://www.scuba.com/blog/the-wonderfully-wacky-world-underwater-do-fish-fart/
fish don't actually fart.
I'm reading the banter back and forth and that got me curious if anyone else had ever been swallowed by a whale and survived. Surprisingly, I found THIS article:
This is his account.....
“I’m moving through the water. And I’m like, what the, what? Where am I? what happened? Did I get eaten by a shark? No, I can’t feel any cuts. I don’t think it’s a shark. And then instantly I knew it was a whale.”
“I’m travelling through the water, like fast, he’s like cruising through the water and water is just pouring in through his mouth and just, as soon as it happened, my regulator, it came out of my mouth.
“Thank God the regulator didn’t fall behind my back. It was like, kind of pressed up between his mouth and me. Cause it was kind of tight in there. And I just saw my regulator there and I put it back in my mouth. and went okay, I got air, but I’m still in here.
When asked if he could feel the whale’s “tongue”, Mr Packer said: “I just felt all hard muscles around me.
“I could feel as like, I think it was, his jaws kind of crushing my legs and I’m trying to like move my legs so I could get into position to like swim out of his mouth.
“But none of that was working.”
He said he was “convinced” he was going to die.
“I was convinced I was dead and all I could think about was my boys. I have a lovely wife and a mother that has gone through hell.
“I was convinced, okay, this is how you’re going to go, Michael, this sucks. It sucks. Huh.”
It was then he realised he was at the mercy of the whale.
“I tried and I tried and I’m like, ‘I’m not going to get out unless he let’s me out. It’s too massive a creature. It’s not like I’m going to pry myself out and push up on his jaws, swim out’.
“He was going to do what he wanted with me or what, you know, I just realised it. I was, I was in his grips.”
Then, all of a sudden: “I felt him going up and I saw light and then he started getting really erratic and really like shaking and getting aggressive.
“He’s trying to get rid of me. And I’m like, I had just a tiny bit of hope. And then he’s thrashing going back and forth, then all of a sudden light.
“And I’m like through a little bit through the air, kind of thrown to the side.”
Mr Mayo, on the surface while the commotion was underway in the water, described the scene from above:
“I just saw this huge commotion on a surface and eruption of water, just a slashing of white water.
“We had this whale absolutely going berserk and suddenly within the boiling commotion up comes Michael, he comes sort of flying into the air, clearing the surface of the water for sure.
“He came out sort of upside down with his legs, sort of uprights, sort of like, you know, divers, it looked like frog legs, you know, with his fins on there or a boogie board or getting hammered in surf or something.”
Karl Stefanovic can’t get enough of the story.
He was free.
“I just was laying on the surface of the water looking up and I was like, ‘oh my God, I got out of it. I got out of it. I’m alive. No matter how injured I am, I’m not gonna die. I’m here. I could have broken legs. I could have a broken back, but I’m not dead. And I’m not going to die in a whale’s mouth’.”
His only injury was ligament damage to his leg.
When pressed on accusations by those that say his story sounds too good to be true, he said it was”starting to bother me”.
“I kind of talked to friends of mine and friends were reaching out to me and just telling me, ‘don’t worry about them, Michael. We know you, we’ve known you your whole life. Michael Packard is the last person to make up something like this’.
“The reinforcement that I got from the community really just made me not worry about what anybody else to say.
“Come and meet me, shake my hand. If it worries you that much. Diving is my life. Fishing was my life. I mean, I, you know, I haven’t, I haven’t fished in two weeks now and I’m going out of my mind, I’m pretty good besides my knee.
“I’m getting a leg brace, custom leg brace made tomorrow. And I, I plan on getting in the water next week.”
This man was only in the whale's mouth for several minutes. Jonah was in the whale's STOMACH for THREE days. I think the Bible is describing Jonah's death. If Jonah was conscious the entire three days, he would have truly suffered and would have died anyway since breathing would have been very difficult without any breathing equipment like that diver had. The diver also testified that it was very difficult to move, the whale's muscles very strong around him and could crush his legs.
So I think Jonah did die which was God's mercy on him - God didn't want him suffering being conscious for the three days inside the whale.
🍝
This is his account.....
“I’m moving through the water. And I’m like, what the, what? Where am I? what happened? Did I get eaten by a shark? No, I can’t feel any cuts. I don’t think it’s a shark. And then instantly I knew it was a whale.”
“I’m travelling through the water, like fast, he’s like cruising through the water and water is just pouring in through his mouth and just, as soon as it happened, my regulator, it came out of my mouth.
“Thank God the regulator didn’t fall behind my back. It was like, kind of pressed up between his mouth and me. Cause it was kind of tight in there. And I just saw my regulator there and I put it back in my mouth. and went okay, I got air, but I’m still in here.
When asked if he could feel the whale’s “tongue”, Mr Packer said: “I just felt all hard muscles around me.
“I could feel as like, I think it was, his jaws kind of crushing my legs and I’m trying to like move my legs so I could get into position to like swim out of his mouth.
“But none of that was working.”
He said he was “convinced” he was going to die.
“I was convinced I was dead and all I could think about was my boys. I have a lovely wife and a mother that has gone through hell.
“I was convinced, okay, this is how you’re going to go, Michael, this sucks. It sucks. Huh.”
It was then he realised he was at the mercy of the whale.
“I tried and I tried and I’m like, ‘I’m not going to get out unless he let’s me out. It’s too massive a creature. It’s not like I’m going to pry myself out and push up on his jaws, swim out’.
“He was going to do what he wanted with me or what, you know, I just realised it. I was, I was in his grips.”
Then, all of a sudden: “I felt him going up and I saw light and then he started getting really erratic and really like shaking and getting aggressive.
“He’s trying to get rid of me. And I’m like, I had just a tiny bit of hope. And then he’s thrashing going back and forth, then all of a sudden light.
“And I’m like through a little bit through the air, kind of thrown to the side.”
Mr Mayo, on the surface while the commotion was underway in the water, described the scene from above:
“I just saw this huge commotion on a surface and eruption of water, just a slashing of white water.
“We had this whale absolutely going berserk and suddenly within the boiling commotion up comes Michael, he comes sort of flying into the air, clearing the surface of the water for sure.
“He came out sort of upside down with his legs, sort of uprights, sort of like, you know, divers, it looked like frog legs, you know, with his fins on there or a boogie board or getting hammered in surf or something.”
Karl Stefanovic can’t get enough of the story.
He was free.
“I just was laying on the surface of the water looking up and I was like, ‘oh my God, I got out of it. I got out of it. I’m alive. No matter how injured I am, I’m not gonna die. I’m here. I could have broken legs. I could have a broken back, but I’m not dead. And I’m not going to die in a whale’s mouth’.”
His only injury was ligament damage to his leg.
When pressed on accusations by those that say his story sounds too good to be true, he said it was”starting to bother me”.
“I kind of talked to friends of mine and friends were reaching out to me and just telling me, ‘don’t worry about them, Michael. We know you, we’ve known you your whole life. Michael Packard is the last person to make up something like this’.
“The reinforcement that I got from the community really just made me not worry about what anybody else to say.
“Come and meet me, shake my hand. If it worries you that much. Diving is my life. Fishing was my life. I mean, I, you know, I haven’t, I haven’t fished in two weeks now and I’m going out of my mind, I’m pretty good besides my knee.
“I’m getting a leg brace, custom leg brace made tomorrow. And I, I plan on getting in the water next week.”
-=<(*)>=-
This man was only in the whale's mouth for several minutes. Jonah was in the whale's STOMACH for THREE days. I think the Bible is describing Jonah's death. If Jonah was conscious the entire three days, he would have truly suffered and would have died anyway since breathing would have been very difficult without any breathing equipment like that diver had. The diver also testified that it was very difficult to move, the whale's muscles very strong around him and could crush his legs.
So I think Jonah did die which was God's mercy on him - God didn't want him suffering being conscious for the three days inside the whale.
🍝
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lol you are funny at times Stan.
So Stan come on let's have a realistic discussion buddy.
Firstly buddy would you agree a body can not live without its conscience.
And a conscience can not live without its body.
Question how is it, Jonah conscience was separated from Jonah's body but somehow stayed alive for 3 days.
Would you agree Jonah's conscience went to the sheol whilst his body stayed in the whale.
Well his conscience cried out from the sheol, as it's not your flesh that goes to the sheol.
So how was his conscience kept alive in the sheol
And how was his body kept alive in the whale.
Well what about the conscience of an angel kept his body alive in the whale.
And a conscience of an angel kept his conscience alive in the sheol, for days.
So how is it that possible you may ask
Well it's called a miracle buddy.
The conscience of an angle dwelled in Jonah's body inside the whale and kept his body alive, whilst another angel kept Jonah's conscience live inside his spiritual body for 3 days.
There's a living Miracle buddy.
So Stan come on let's have a realistic discussion buddy.
Firstly buddy would you agree a body can not live without its conscience.
And a conscience can not live without its body.
Question how is it, Jonah conscience was separated from Jonah's body but somehow stayed alive for 3 days.
Would you agree Jonah's conscience went to the sheol whilst his body stayed in the whale.
Well his conscience cried out from the sheol, as it's not your flesh that goes to the sheol.
So how was his conscience kept alive in the sheol
And how was his body kept alive in the whale.
Well what about the conscience of an angel kept his body alive in the whale.
And a conscience of an angel kept his conscience alive in the sheol, for days.
So how is it that possible you may ask
Well it's called a miracle buddy.
The conscience of an angle dwelled in Jonah's body inside the whale and kept his body alive, whilst another angel kept Jonah's conscience live inside his spiritual body for 3 days.
There's a living Miracle buddy.
Using the Hebrew
Jonah 2:3 And he said: I called out of mine affliction unto the LORD, and He answered me; out of the belly of the nether-world cried I, and Thou heardest my voice
What was the ancient Hebrew Netherworld called?
Sheol (/ˈʃiːəl/; Hebrew: שְׁאוֹל Šəʾōl, Tiberian: Šŏʾōl) in the Hebrew Bible is the underworld place of stillness and darkness which lies after death.
Jonah 2:3 And he said: I called out of mine affliction unto the LORD, and He answered me; out of the belly of the nether-world cried I, and Thou heardest my voice
What was the ancient Hebrew Netherworld called?
Sheol (/ˈʃiːəl/; Hebrew: שְׁאוֹל Šəʾōl, Tiberian: Šŏʾōl) in the Hebrew Bible is the underworld place of stillness and darkness which lies after death.
Yeah, it's more like a bubble that floats to the top and then you hear the rip
Because scripture never directly says he died and then God raised him from the dead and this is what most scholars think as well for whatever good that does.
Besides, why does it even matter? Who really cares?
If we guess right does this make us a better Christian and it brings us closer to the Lord or something.
There's lots of other things to think about that are far more profitable for spiritual growth
Besides, what ever happened to the question "Why didn’t Jonah just jump off the boat?"
Very clear evidence here that Phil Joel too has previously died. https://genius.com/Phil-joel-changed-lyrics
Or it's poetry.
Or it's poetry.
The huge, huge majority of suicides are the result of illness, not a murderous decision. It's people who would not want to die if they were not ill; or do not want to die but cannot stop themselves because they are ill. Jesus came to heal all our illnesses and even raised people who had died of illnesses. Don't be afraid. Dying of an illness which you are unable to fight is sometimes the Lord's will, for his reasons. If you or anyone you know is suicidal, or better still, before depression/psychosis/stress progresses that far, take it seriously and see a doctor. And let's all be ready and well-trained to provide kindness effectively and timely, as those in a position to help the sick may be judged by a higher standard in line with their ability.
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That's false doctrine!
Jesus said He always does what He sees and hears the Father do and NOT ONCE did Jesus ever say it was God's will for anybody to be sick. Not once!
In fact, Jesus took our sickness and disease upon His Body on the cross so I don't have to have them in my body.
Those that learn how to stand on God's Word can live victoriously in ALL areas of their lives.
Those that allow the devil to talk them out of God's promises get defeat.
I went and saw Jesus and He healed me and set me free!
All doctors can do is experimentation that ends in failure more times than not.
P
