What if you die before water baptism?

[CS1]

Wow, I would hope people on this chat who identify themselves as Christians, would be considerate of others even if they don't agree. Please tell me why this is nonsense (using Scripture and not just your opinion or your church's teachings/traditions). Of course prior to Jesus' resurrection, all believers went to Paradise (or Hades as evidenced in Luke 16:19-31 with Abraham and Lazarus) also called Abraham's bosom to wait for Jesus to take them to Heaven after He died.

Please take a moment to know I never said this thread was nonsense. Maybe I should have what do you think instead of asking, "Do you?" And what was the question? That you want to be asked?

Paradise? and the thief?

Jesus said I tell you that YOU will be with ME in Paradise. Luke 23:43



43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


Was a place where the righteous dead go and the divide where the unrighteous go when they die.

Jesus said I tell you the Truth, THIS DAY, YOU will be with ME in a Place called Paradise. That was not a metaphor it was a real place.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Please take a moment to know I never said this thread was nonsense. Maybe I should have what do you think instead of asking, "Do you?" And what was the question? That you want to be asked?

Paradise? and the thief?

Jesus said I tell you that YOU will be with ME in Paradise. Luke 23:43



43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


Was a place where the righteous dead go and the divide where the unrighteous go when they die.

Jesus said I tell you the Truth, THIS DAY, YOU will be with ME in a Place called Paradise. That was not a metaphor it was a real place.

So sorry, I did not intend for this thread to be directed at you, it was for the Thunder guy. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Unless you repent, and stop tryign to earn your salvation. I am not sure you will.

I repented of my sins, got born again and then got baptized all in obedience to the Word of the Lord.

Your opinion about my salvation is totally and utterly irrelevant and meaningless since you're not the One Who decides who is accepted and who isn't.

Those that disobey the Lord refusing to get baptized are not going to get in. Hope that's not you!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I repented of my sins, got born again and then got baptized all in obedience to the Word of the Lord.

Your opinion about my salvation is totally and utterly irrelevant and meaningless since you're not the One Who decides who is accepted and who isn't.

Those that disobey the Lord refusing to get baptized are not going to get in. Hope that's not you!

Salvation is not based on water baptism

If you think it is your just as lost who thought they had to add circumcision to the gospel.

You, as they, teach a different gospel.

I have never met anyone in my life who refused to get baptized. I doubt I ever will. So your argument is based on a non event in the first place.

 

[jamessb]

I repented of my sins, got born again and then got baptized all in obedience to the Word of the Lord.

Your opinion about my salvation is totally and utterly irrelevant and meaningless since you're not the One Who decides who is accepted and who isn't.

Those that disobey the Lord refusing to get baptized are not going to get in. Hope that's not you!

I liked the first part of your post. The second part is hostile. The third part is just plain wrong.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

I liked the first part of your post. The second part is hostile. The third part is just plain wrong.

Were you directing your comment to me? LoriSaysHey? Sorry, I'm new to this site and it's hard to tell sometimes which comments are being directed to me. I certainly would never intentionally do anything to be hostile to anyone.

 

[jamessb]

Were you directing your comment to me? LoriSaysHey? Sorry, I'm new to this site and it's hard to tell sometimes which comments are being directed to me. I certainly would never intentionally do anything to be hostile to anyone.

No, it was directed at Stan_the_Man. Specifically his post #1,145.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Were you directing your comment to me? LoriSaysHey? Sorry, I'm new to this site and it's hard to tell sometimes which comments are being directed to me. I certainly would never intentionally do anything to be hostile to anyone.

He was directing it to @Stan_the_Man

If you look in the quote. The person he quoted is the one who a person responds to.

 

[CS1]

So sorry, I did not intend for this thread to be directed at you, it was for the Thunder guy. Sorry for the confusion.

NP I full understand

 

[LoriSaysHey]

He was directing it to @Stan_the_Man

If you look in the quote. The person he quoted is the one who a person responds to.

Thanks CS1!

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Salvation is not based on water baptism

And yet the Word of God tells us water baptism is part of being saved.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has lead to erroneous thinking.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

I'm not saying one does not first repent, believe, and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is of course the first thing one does for initial salvation. Without doing this, one can get dunked in the water all they want and that does not make them saved.

I have never met anyone in my life who refused to get baptized. I doubt I ever will. So your argument is based on a non event in the first place.

No, there are actually people going around telling others that there's no need to get baptized at all, it';s a waste of time, don't bother with it at all.

So someone needs to post some scriptures from God's Word on the subject which upsets some because it flips over their little religious apple cart.

I liked the first part of your post. The second part is hostile. The third part is just plain wrong.

When people claim others are not saved, they will get set straight for their false assumption.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has led to erroneous thinking.

See scriptures posted up above to see what the Lord says about being baptized... it is not optional and it is a part of being saved.

Surely you wouldn't claim these truths should be ignore would ya?

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Water baptism is important and we are instructed to be baptised, which I was soon after I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. However, it is not the baptism act that saves us, it is God's grace through our faith that saves us. God knows our heart, so we can't fool Him with our acts of righteousness. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God (the Gospel message) and believing it in our heart that Jesus is Lord and He died willingly on our behalf to save us from our sins. Don't forget to include the other verses that tell us how to be saved that don't talk about baptism, such as: Ephesians 2:8-9, 1 John 1:9, Romans 10:9, Rom 10:17, 1 John 4:15, Rev 3:20, and many others. Baptism is more of a public profession of our faith, but it's primarily God's grace through our faith that saves us from our sins so that we can receive the promise of His Holy Spirit to dwell in us and lead us into all Truth. A true believer will want to get baptised. My son, who broke his neck surfing 24 years ago, and is paralyzed to this day, was saved shortly after his accident. Our church did baptisms once a month at a public pool. He told me that he wanted to be baptised and insisted that we find a way to do it as he was in a power wheelchair. I didn't know how this was going to happen, but we just trusted the Lord and went to the pool while people were being baptised. There was a group of very strong men (called the Power Team) there helping with the baptisms. One of them came up to my son, who knew him, and asked him who he was there to support. My son told him that he was in fact there to be baptised, but didn't know how he was going to get into the pool. I am still touched to this day as I remember what happened. I watched four strong men come over to my son, pick him up and put him in the pool and he was baptised, then they lifted him up out of the pool and placed him back into his wheelchair with no problem. Everyone there clapped and congratulated my son for having the faith to come and get baptised. My son told me that he felt that the Holy Spirit worked all this out for him. But, it started with his faith to believe there would be a way to make it happen.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Paragraphs are your friend!

it is not the baptism act that saves us, it is God's grace through our faith that saves us. God knows our heart, so we can't fool Him with our acts of righteousness.

Yet, scripture tells us that baptism is part of our salvation and it's not a good work but it's being obedient to what the Lord tells us to do.

Your son was being led by the Lord to get baptized.

 

[LoriSaysHey]

Paragraphs are your friend!

Your right. And I'm a retired technical writer. I'll keep that in mind next time.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Your right. And I'm a retired technical writer. I'll keep that in mind next time.

I was just messin with ya!

Sometimes I take a non paragraph piece like that and paste it in to a word doc just so I can break it up in to parts to make it easier to read.

 

[Magenta]

Water baptism is important and we are instructed to be baptised, which I was soon after I accepted Christ
as my Lord and Savior. However, it is not the baptism act that saves us, it is God's grace through our faith
that saves us. God knows our heart, so we can't fool Him with our acts of righteousness. Faith comes from
hearing the Word of God (the Gospel message) and believing it in our heart that Jesus is Lord and He died
willingly on our behalf to save us from our sins. Don't forget to include the other verses that tell us how
to be saved that don't talk about baptism, such as: Ephesians 2:8-9, 1 John 1:9, Romans 10:9, Rom 10:17,
1 John 4:15, Rev 3:20, and many others. Baptism is more of a public profession of our faith, but it's primarily
God's grace through our faith that saves us from our sins so that we can receive the promise of His Holy
Spirit to dwell in us and lead us into all Truth. A true believer will want to get baptised.

My son, who broke his neck surfing 24 years ago, and is paralyzed to this day, was saved shortly after his
accident. Our church did baptisms once a month at a public pool. He told me that he wanted to be baptised
and insisted that we find a way to do it as he was in a power wheelchair. I didn't know how this was going
to happen, but we just trusted the Lord and went to the pool while people were being baptised. There was
a group of very strong men (called the Power Team) there helping with the baptisms. One of them came up
to my son, who knew him, and asked him who he was there to support. My son told him that he was in fact
there to be baptised, but didn't know how he was going to get into the pool. I am still touched to this day
as I remember what happened. I watched four strong men come over to my son, pick him up and put him
in the pool and he was baptised, then they lifted him up out of the pool and placed him back into his
wheelchair with no problem. Everyone there clapped and congratulated my son for having the faith to
come and get baptised. My son told me that he felt that the Holy Spirit worked all this out for him. But,
it started with his faith to believe there would be a way to make it happen.

Very touching story. Is that your son with you in your avatar? God bless both of you!

 

[LoriSaysHey]

I was just messin with ya!

Sometimes I take a non paragraph piece like that and paste it in to a word doc just so I can break it up in to parts to make it easier to read.

Oops, correction. Meant to say "You're right" not "Your right". Dah! And I call myself a writer. Good thing I always had excellent editors to review my stuff prior to release for publication.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And yet the Word of God tells us water baptism is part of being saved.

Yes, Baptism is

Water baptism however is not.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has lead to erroneous thinking.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This does not say water baptism. And has two problems in thinking it means water baptism.

1. Jesus did not say it ANYPLACE else.
2. It does not say that someone who is not baptised is not saved. (see also John 3)

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Once again

repent is second person plural. Peter gave this command to everyone

Be baptized is third person singular. He did not give this command to everyone. He gave it only to those who repented, based on the fact they received remission of sin.

If your not going to study. then you will never learn.. you will continue in ignorance of what the passage actually says.

Repent is
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Notice. Peter says it does not remove the filth of the flesh (sin)

It does not save you. Like the waters of the flood. it is another symbol of what truly saves us, the ressurection of Christ.

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Purly amazing. A washing not done by the hands of man, you twist into some water baptism, done by the hands of men.

This is the baptism done by God. or spirit baptism. the baptism which really saved. No water is involved.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Again, Spirit baptism, It says you were baptized into his DEATH (not water)

Again, I challenge you to study the greek word baptizo and what it means.. It does not mean what you think it means, your trying to replace the baptism of God with the one done by men.
As Paul said, It is not the physical circumcision or baptism that saves us, it is the spiritual circumcision or baptism done by the one who raised him from the dead (col 2)

I'm not saying one does not first repent, believe, and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is of course the first thing one does for initial salvation. Without doing this, one can get dunked in the water all they want and that does not make them saved.

There is no initial salvation. Your either saved (justified) or your lost (dead or condemned)

Jesus did not say it is finished, I did my part now you do your part.

No, there are actually people going around telling others that there's no need to get baptized at all, it';s a waste of time, don't bother with it at all.

So someone needs to post some scriptures from God's Word on the subject which upsets some because it flips over their little religious apple cart.

No one is saying this man.

People are saying do not get baptized as part of your salvation. do it because you are saved. Water baptism is to the church what circumcision was to the jew. a crutch of self righteousness and puffing yourself up to earn your salvation.

You can;t share the word if you do not understand it.

When people claim others are not saved, they will get set straight for their false assumption.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has led to erroneous thinking.

See scriptures posted up above to see what the Lord says about being baptized... it is not optional and it is a part of being saved.

Surely you wouldn't claim these truths should be ignore would ya? View attachment 261361

No, I would claim lets interpret them correctly. And not twist them as you have.

Learn the difference between the baptism performed by God. and the ceremony of water baptism performed by Man.


better yet. don't focus on verses in which you think support you. But on them all,

Like
John 1. RECEIVE him
John 3, Look to the cross and BELIEVE him
John 4 - ASK and you will RECIEVE
John 5 - SEE and BELIEVE
John 6 - SEE and BELIEVE - Eat the BREAD from HEAVEN (the words of the HS)

No mention of water baptism in any of these passages, Because water baptism is not part of the gospel.

It IS part of christian growth. as we are obedient to God and what he wants

And we can judge a gospel. if it is from God or not.. Water baptism salvation is NOT from God. and will not save.. Never has, never will

 

[jamessb]

And yet the Word of God tells us water baptism is part of being saved.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has lead to erroneous thinking.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

I'm not saying one does not first repent, believe, and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is of course the first thing one does for initial salvation. Without doing this, one can get dunked in the water all they want and that does not make them saved.





No, there are actually people going around telling others that there's no need to get baptized at all, it';s a waste of time, don't bother with it at all.

So someone needs to post some scriptures from God's Word on the subject which upsets some because it flips over their little religious apple cart.





When people claim others are not saved, they will get set straight for their false assumption.

The problem here is, you do not accept all that the Lord says on this subject which has led to erroneous thinking.

See scriptures posted up above to see what the Lord says about being baptized... it is not optional and it is a part of being saved.

Surely you wouldn't claim these truths should be ignore would ya? View attachment 261361

Let me know when you have a proper interpretation of Scripture, instead of making it fit a predetermined assumption.

You will gain more understanding if you use a modern translation, not the KJV.

1 Peter 3:21 KVJ: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:19-22: NIV: After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

a) Chopping up the Bible into separate verses, which often breaks up the flow of the writing, very often presents a problem. That is the case here.

b) Notice that baptism is a "pledge of a clear conscience toward God", i.e., a statement. What actually saves you? The resurrection of Jesus Christ"! (You are correct when you write that baptism "is a part of being saved")

To quote you, "Surely you wouldn't claim these truths should be ignore would ya?" Notice the mistake in your sentence? "ignore" should be "ignored". See? You and others claim that the KJV olde Englyshe translation is accurate, but you can't even write correctly!!!

In summary, the ritual of baptism in water does not save a person. If that was actually true, then everyone whom John baptized in the Jordan had no need for Christ!

Finally, here is proof that water baptism does not save a person. Acts 10:44-48, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."

So the Cornelius and those with him received the Holy Spirt first, i.e., they were born again and saved. Then, afterwards, they were baptized in water.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Oops, correction. Meant to say "You're right" not "Your right". Dah! And I call myself a writer. Good thing I always had excellent editors to review my stuff prior to release for publication.

Sometimes I muspell things due to suffering from FFS
(Fat Fingers Syndrome)