Predestination is misunderstood...

[sawdust]

I fully intend to not just have a nice day as always, but also to make the day as nice as possible for others,

It ain't my will that makes the day nice for others it's God's will.

Listen buddy God made you in his image according to his likeness,

Should not mean he made you in true likeness.

If he had of created you in a true likeness you would be walking around with the ability to go unseen by other people.

Do you have that ability 🤔.

I can't see you and you can't see me, so .....

 

[sawdust]

I was making a distinction between what is just and what is fair. God claims to be just. He does not claim to be fair. Justice has to do with judgment according to a standard. Fairness has to do with equity and equality. No standard is required, only that all are treated in the same manner.
Since God does deal with people differently, He doesn't deal with us according to Fairness. But since His standard never changes, He does always deal with us justly.
If you make this application to salvation, God doesn't deal with everyone equitably in salvation. Have a few people share their testimonies if you don't believe me. You may find common elements, but all will differ. However, God does deal with us all justly. He requires all of us to have perfect righteousness.

Within the context of how the poster used the word originally, they mean the same thing. You're being pendantic and using the world's view of what is fair and just and ascribing it to God. There is nothing "unfair" about being born into a poor family any more than a rich family as far as God is concerned. It's only the world that makes that distinction.

God treats us according to our place as any just parent would do. You don't treat a child of two the same as a child of ten and it is perfectly fair. To demand the same of both is unfair.

If God does not deal equitably in salvation then pray tell who is blacklisted from every spiritual blessing of the heavenly realm?

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Ephesians 1:3 + Philippians 2:13

 

[sawdust]

Oh. So the goal posts have been moved now? That's another logical fallacy...

How is it that, if created in the image and likeness of God, sharing in His attributes is illogical? Yet, you state being made in His image and likeness should not see us have anything in common, and that is suppose to be logical?

No-one moved the goal posts, you simply got distracted and looked away.

 

[Magenta]

How is it that, if created in the image and likeness of God, sharing in His attributes is illogical? Yet, you state being made in His image and likeness should not see us have anything in common, and that is suppose to be logical?

No-one moved the goal posts, you simply got distracted and looked away.

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and in fact it is a blatant lie that I stated "being made
in His image and likeness should not see us have anything in common," for I said no such thing.

 

[PaulThomson]

there are many verse perhaps, but they will all relate to the message only being given once by God.

It should be simple to understand, those names written in the lambs book of God represent past tense present tense and future tense.

You understand that don't you.

What in the Greek or English grammar means that the names were written before the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of life? What in the grammar precludes the names being added to the book as humans are conceived, or perhaps as they are born, and removed if they die having failed to respond with submission to Yahweh?

 

[PaulThomson]

The word thelO means I will, I desire, I want. That is what the word scripture uses in the NT for God willing. The greek word for I do is poieO and for I work is ergomai. These are different words and mean different things. You are conflating quite different scriptural terms in order to force your theology into the Bible. Read what the Bible actually says and build your understanding of God upon that. Then God's word will be your master. By forcing your philosophy into the Bible you are making yourself the master over and a judge of God's word. There are severe warnings about adding or taking away from God's word.

 

[PaulThomson]

Genez said:
If God wills things? Then so does man. For we were created in his image.

Eh? That is a logical fallacy.

Which category of logical fallacy did you have in mind?

 

[PaulThomson]

What needs to be explained? You say because God can do something, we can too because we were made in His image. God can create a whole universe by speaking, and give it life. Can we do that? No, we cannot. Therefore your premise is flawed and quite simply wrong.

You haven't heard of Age of Empires, and God video games?

 

[PaulThomson]

Thunderr-mental said -
"Sir listen.
Your will is not God's will, unless his will resides in you."

According to (S)TULIP everything that happens is God's will. So according to (S)TULIP, everyone's will is exactly as God has willed it to be.

 

[PaulThomson]

You need to give me the verse that says He is. Otherwise, He isn't.
Look up the word fair. You will find it deals with equality.

What do you understand "God is no respecter of persons" to mean.

 

[PaulThomson]

Well, this is the dilemma facing Church. Every denomination seems to have it's own peculiar interpretation of this Bible doctrine. The interpretations, views and narratives are radically different. There's a smorgasbord of interpretations and everyone chooses the one which appeals most to their views.

I'd rather not get into a long and drawn-out debate abut which interpretation is the Biblically correct one. Because highly educated theologians have been debating this topic for around 500 years and they are no closer to finding any common ground today as they were when they started.

I don't think anyone can convince someone else to agree with their private interpretation of those texts. Thankfully the Church doesn't persecute people for having a different view today as it did in times past. Today we can choose a local Church, where we agree with the view of the Minister.

I did a lot of shopping around and found a Church where the preaching lines up with my understanding of the Bible. I guess everyone does the same, so we end up with countless denominations and opposing views and everyone thinks theirs is the only true one and all the others have errors in their interpretation.

After shopping around for a couple of years, I settled into an independent non denominational Reformed Baptist Church. So to answer your question regarding context, I would refer you to the 1689 Reformed Confession Of Faith https://www.the1689confession.com/

The confession outlines the reasons we believe in Gods sovereignty in election and predestination.

It is not necessary to agree to a statement of faith to participate in God's church, Christ's body. It is not necessary to come to scripture with a set of doctrines already formulated by which the meaning of texts will be skewed. It is possible to come to scripture like a child and to let the scripture say what it wants to say with very few presuppositions.

We can choose to presuppose only -
1. God cannot lie.
2 The Bible is God's Word
3. Therefore Bible is true.

Beyond that, we can be open to whatever the scripture says to us as we read it using basic comprehension skills and logic.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The above verse could be understood as God referring to the Israelites wondering in the desert, as they were under the old covenant which is not applicable to us under the new covenant.

Not really. But as you say you have not done a study on the blotting out of names from the book of life. So kindly do your study. There are quite a few verses on this.

 

[sawdust]

You say because God can do something, we can too because we were made in His image

That is a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and in fact it is a blatant lie that I stated "being made
in His image and likeness should not see us have anything in common," for I said no such thing.

Then how are we meant to understand your post above if you didn't mean reflecting who and what God is a logical inconsistency?

Instead of ripping my head off try explaining what I misunderstood?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

How is it that, if created in the image and likeness of God, sharing in His attributes is illogical? Yet, you state being made in His image and likeness should not see us have anything in common, and that is suppose to be logical?

No-one moved the goal posts, you simply got distracted and looked away.

It's not a distraction.

It's obvious that God created us to look how we look, he created us to have a capacity to love he also created us to honor, he created us to multiply,

Where ever you see a request from the lord of a commandment, we wouldn't be able to do what's he asking if we didn't have a capacity to do it.

So obviously he has created us with a will to do his will.

He also created us to live by his will and the capacity in which he created us within his image.

It obviously he created us with characteristics that are in likeness to his own characteristics.

But thats all his will, and his characteristics that he created us with. It was his will in us before we fell, which was free to choose. And was free with innocence.


That will decided to live for somebody else, and not his will.

Then we where stripped of his will.

No longer walking free in the garden, and no longer free to choose.


Then man became a curse to his will.

And he then place another capacity in man. A set of rules and laws, which has imprisoned his own will in us.

Because he is your father. And we are his children. 😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

What in the Greek or English grammar means that the names were written before the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of life? What in the grammar precludes the names being added to the book as humans are conceived, or perhaps as they are born, and removed if they die having failed to respond with submission to Yahweh?

we are born from the dirt not from heaven.

How can your name be in the lambs book of life if you haven been born yet.

Explain that to me.

Have you ever stopped to wonder if once upon of time man walked in the same time as God

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Thank you.... That was "en-lightning."

well have you ever stopped to wonder if man once lived in the same time with God before they fell.

And do you know what I mean by that.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Or if it makes anyone feel better we where born from dust that was made magical dust 😊

 

[HeIsHere]

Is God just? Is that a divine attribute?

The three nouns of God are Love, Light and Life.

So I will go with the nouns, the adjectives describe the noun.

 

[HeIsHere]

Incorrect. Men fit themselves for destruction. He must act in order for someone to be saved. He need do nothing for someone to perish. Men are born under wrath and condemnation already.

So it seems apparent to me know that you believe in simple terms,

1) total depravity, man unable to hear and respond to the Gospel unless man is regenerated first.
2) Jesus died for the elect only
3) unconditional election, God chooses

I am not sure what you mean by destruction, some people here think it means to annihilate in the next life assuming you do believe in a place of punishment after physical death I would like to ask two questions

Are all the unborn fetuses and babies who are not the elected destined for eternal punishment?

How is God just if He gives "biblical hearing" to some only and not another and then holds the non-elect accountable for not responding to the Gospel when they never had the ability to respond?