Is Believing/Behaving Correctly a Work/Debt
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Believing: Is not "works." Believing is faith in.
Now, as for the Scripture you posted: "Works," rather, good works are not done to achieve salvation. Good works are a fruit of salvation. God has purposed all His children for a purpose, and it is the responsibility of the believer to recognize that purpose and fulfill that purpose. Salvation provides us the necessary heart to desire to fulfill the good works God purposed us for.
The Holy Spirit provides us with the necessary "gift/gifts" we will need to accomplish said works. His indwelling presence will lead us to understand what the works are, and how to accomplish them. "Works" do not and never will earn eternal salvation!
You might take heart in knowing that each believer will be rewarded by God for his "works" though. Scripture teaches us this to be Truth.
Revelation 22:12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Now, as for the Scripture you posted: "Works," rather, good works are not done to achieve salvation. Good works are a fruit of salvation. God has purposed all His children for a purpose, and it is the responsibility of the believer to recognize that purpose and fulfill that purpose. Salvation provides us the necessary heart to desire to fulfill the good works God purposed us for.
The Holy Spirit provides us with the necessary "gift/gifts" we will need to accomplish said works. His indwelling presence will lead us to understand what the works are, and how to accomplish them. "Works" do not and never will earn eternal salvation!
You might take heart in knowing that each believer will be rewarded by God for his "works" though. Scripture teaches us this to be Truth.
Revelation 22:12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
If someone suffers greatly and dies in your place so you can be saved …..are we indebted to him ?
Id say some folks wouldnt feel like they owed anything others might feel like they owe thier lives to him
“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 KJV
Id say some folks wouldnt feel like they owed anything others might feel like they owe thier lives to him
“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 KJV
Believing is actually as good work we have been called to and ordained for.
Good Work – Called to Good Works
-----------------------------------------------
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.
2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.
-
3
- Show all
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.
These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus
unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:8-22 KJV
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus
unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:8-22 KJV
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Probably a reference to is the gospel worth dying for.
In other words if someone put a gun to your head, told you to renounce Jesus Christ or they'll shoot you, and you refused to renounce Jesus Christ and they killed you - would it be worth it?
For me it would be a win win to refuse to renounce Jesus Christ because I get to leave here and go be with the Lord where He's at where it's ALL good!
I've actually had guns pulled on me numerous times so it makes me no never mind, I'll ready to go!
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
…it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ( from the flesh and blood natural body to the spiritual eternal body made in his image )
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 44, 49-53 KJV
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
“but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:”
2 Timothy 1:10 KJV
…it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ( from the flesh and blood natural body to the spiritual eternal body made in his image )
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 44, 49-53 KJV
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
“but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:”
2 Timothy 1:10 KJV
Anything that someone believes they must DO in order to become saved, whether it be in the self-producing of one's own faith or by the doing of anything else, makes it labor (though not necessarily it being of a physical labor variety), but nevertheless, still being their labor because they are required to DO/ACHIEVE it. Not only is it a labor, but by the necessity of having to satisfy it in order to become saved - or should they not do so and thereby not become saved- by that, making it a law, but the Bible makes abundantly clear that no one can be saved in their attempt to satisfy any law no matter how slight nor how great that attempt might be: it is binary.
The only way that any of the requirements for salvation can be satisfied without being work is if they are imputed to someone freely through/by Christ fully as a gift. This is what makes Christ the Saviour (as the Bible tells us that He is) and we but the recipients of salvation and not our own co-saviours.
The only way that any of the requirements for salvation can be satisfied without being work is if they are imputed to someone freely through/by Christ fully as a gift. This is what makes Christ the Saviour (as the Bible tells us that He is) and we but the recipients of salvation and not our own co-saviours.
The significance of doing good works is that not that it is part of something that we are required to have done first in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather the significance is that is is expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are being saved. Our good works in obedience to God testify that He is good, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying that God is good, we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we believing in Him. The way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be doers of His character traits, or in other words, the way to trust in God with all of our heart is by trusting in His character traits to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying God's law rather than leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong.
Works can be required for any number of purposes other than in order to earn something as the result, so such as works that are intrinsically part of what something is. For example, the content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work does not contribute anything that detract from the opportunity to drive it being fully given as a gift. In a similar way, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not for how to earn eternal life as the result.
While there are many verses like Romans 4:1-5 that deny that we can earn our justification as a wage as the result of our works, there are also many verses like Romans 2:13, which states that only doers of the law will be justified, so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are justified does not abolish our need to be doers of the law, but rather our faith uphold it (Romans 3:28-31). In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, so being an obeying of Jesus is required, but not in order to earn it as the result.
While there are many verses like Romans 4:1-5 that deny that we can earn our justification as a wage as the result of our works, there are also many verses like Romans 2:13, which states that only doers of the law will be justified, so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are justified does not abolish our need to be doers of the law, but rather our faith uphold it (Romans 3:28-31). In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, so being an obeying of Jesus is required, but not in order to earn it as the result.
In Romans 10:5-10, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult to obey, in regard to saying that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead.
There are many verses that say that obedience to God's law is the way to life (Deuteronomy 30:11-16, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 22:14, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23), so these verses combined with the many verses that say that the way to eternal life is by believing in Jesus means that God's law is his instructions for how to believe in Jesus. In other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh and it is contradictory to believe in God's word made flesh for salvation, but not in God's word.
In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works, being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law is intrinsically part of God's gift of salvation.
There are many verses that say that obedience to God's law is the way to life (Deuteronomy 30:11-16, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 22:14, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23), so these verses combined with the many verses that say that the way to eternal life is by believing in Jesus means that God's law is his instructions for how to believe in Jesus. In other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh and it is contradictory to believe in God's word made flesh for salvation, but not in God's word.
In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works, being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law is intrinsically part of God's gift of salvation.
Not where salvation is concerned. You shouldn't utilize earthly examples as foundation to corroborate or establish spiritual truth.
Please observe in the below verses that they had been spiritually dead but then made alive, with nothing but God's action taking them from the one to the other. They contributed nothing to the transition but to be recipients - all God's actions, none theirs.
[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13-14 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Please observe in the below verses that they had been spiritually dead but then made alive, with nothing but God's action taking them from the one to the other. They contributed nothing to the transition but to be recipients - all God's actions, none theirs.
[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13-14 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The point of physical examples is to teach spiritual truths, but in any case, it is true the experience of doing works are intrinsically part of what the content of a gift of salvation is rather than something that we are required to have done first in order to earn it as the result.
Another way to put it is that we transition to becoming someone is who is a doer of the law, someone who has faith, and someone will be justified all at the same time, so anyone who is not one is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law. Becoming a doer of God's law is part of the content of God's gift of salvation to us, not about us contributing anything towards earning our salvation as the result.
Another way to put it is that we transition to becoming someone is who is a doer of the law, someone who has faith, and someone will be justified all at the same time, so anyone who is not one is also not the others, but we do not become justified as the result of having first obeyed God's law. Becoming a doer of God's law is part of the content of God's gift of salvation to us, not about us contributing anything towards earning our salvation as the result.
Hmmm. Okay, so you're saying that nothing whatsoever is required on man's part in order to become saved but that good works come from being saved? Is that what you believe?
Sorry but I don't understand. Which law(s) are you referring to that we will (must?) satisfy, and to what degree are you saying that must we do them? And what happens if we don't?
Sorry but I don't understand. Which law(s) are you referring to that we will (must?) satisfy, and to what degree are you saying that must we do them? And what happens if we don't?