I agree except I don't believe most preachers are aware of unction at all.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Which is the result of regeneration. Only the Good Shepherd's sheep listen to his voice! Why? Because Jesus knows them. And because Jesus knows them, they follow him. Conversely, the "goats" (unbelievers) who He was primarily addressing do not believe because they are not his sheep. And why not? Because Jesus never knew them.
Moreover, you're conflating regeneration (the impartation of life and therefore, the means to salvation) with the end which is the new birth/salvation. In other words, just as physical life begins at conception, it is only ultimately manifested to the world when the fetus exits the womb at birth; I believe the same thing occurs with the spiritual rebirth when the converted sinner leaves the dark womb and enters into the Light by confession of his sin and confession that Christ is his Lord and Savior.. I explained this in a biblical analogy of the new birth not too long ago in another thread. I'll repost that analogy later when I find it.
Do you agree with Cameron143 and myself that the preaching of the scriptures being heard begins Regeneration?
)
This isn't quite accurate for me. The fact that someone can hear to me means regeneration has already begun.
Well I think what Christ has done on their behalf is communicated to them, faith results, and a response is made. After this, I believe the indwelling Spirit begins willing and doing of God's good pleasure.
I'm not against the idea that the whole process would fall under the heading of God's good pleasure.
All can hear, not all believe or are persuaded, regeneration begins upon belief this is made clear in scripture.
That is correct. Hearing alone is not enough. Fallen man is tough and it takes all three persons of the Godhead to get them on the path of recovery.
I would disagree. Biblical hearing engenders understanding. Clearly someone who hears the gospel and rejects it has not met the threshold of biblical hearing.
God is salvation,
The one God in three.
Working together
To save wretched me.
The Father must draw,
Christ is the oblation,
The Spirit indwelling,
That's Godly salvation.
The fact that you ask such a question tells me who do not pay very close attention to what I write. No! I believe regeneration MUST logically, and quite possibly chronologically precede conversion. What can physically dead people hear? What can physically dead people see? Connect the dots with this passage:
Matt 13:11-17
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah :
"'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
NIV
And,
John 3:3
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one CAN see (understand) the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
NIV
Or as the AMP version puts it:
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.
AMP
I asked you earlier today about Jesus' dialogue with Nicodemus and you didn't answer that question either. I asked you if you believe Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must do something to understand the kingdom, or was he telling him that something must be done to him?
Hint: Did you have any say in your physical birth? Any say in your place of birth? Any say who your parents would be? Did you make any input about what kind of economic status you wanted to be born under? Or what your aptitudes would be? Assuming, you put your pants on like the rest of us mere mortals, I would venture to say that your answer to all the above would be "NO"! But yet here you are and here we are! And I'd bet my bottom dollar that even though you know all this is true of your physical birth that you don't believe for a moment that God forced his sovereign will upon you, do you? But I wonder why since you were totally left out of the decision-making loop?
This proves Paul does not believe the Elect are predestined like some claim in this thread.
14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith
14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith
Paul proves Hearing and Belief comes before the Holy Spirit
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
1. Heard Word of Truth (Gospel)
2. Believed
3. Then ARE SEALED
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
1. Heard Word of Truth (Gospel)
2. Believed
3. Then ARE SEALED
Sealing happens on the outside...as in sealing a letter. Sealing doesn't place us into the body of Christ. It is an earnest and surety to the believer that indwelling has occurred. It authentcates, not performs.
I will trust Paul not the Reformed explanation on this. The process is the same as Peter said in Acts 2:38. That's 2 verses confirming one another. Actually FOUR VERSES saying same thing.
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction
Roman's 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
I disagree, but I don't want to rehash everything. Also, please don't speak for me as you did in an earlier post. You actually misrepresented my understanding. It doesn't bother me but because you didn't use @Cameron143, had I not seen it, I couldn't have corrected it. And there may be those who feel insulted when you say you believe a particular writer or speaker of scripture rather than their view. The implication is that you trust scripture and they do not. Most everyone is giving their answers based on their understanding of scripture.
Just friendly advice. We don't agree on some elements of salvation, but I have found the exchange edifying to this point.