Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

What allows them to hear? Does hearing need to be imparted?

When they hear the words of a preacher full of the Holy Spirit preaching the inspired message of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is being imparted to them.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul says you first hear the word in power and then you get regenerated.
If the preacher doesn't speak by the power of God no one who hears can be regenerated.
Face it, you don't match up to Paul's explanation. You just can't make it up because you don't have the ability to understand the truth.

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I see many people who do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ disobey the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the truth, Life, and the Door. No one gets to the Father but through Jesus. But it takes belief in Jesus. this is where Faith comes into play. And Faith comes by hearing the Holy Spirit inspired message of the Gospel of Christ when being preached.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

When they hear the words of a preacher full of the Holy Spirit preaching the Holy Spirit inspired message of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is being imparted to them.

Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing the Gospel of Christ

 

[brightfame52]

And to put an even finer point on what said in your paragraph describing the "perfect tense": The action that was completed "in the past" was in eternity "past" when God sovereignly decreed who his elect would be... and would not be by logical inference, since he chose to not have mercy and compassion on them, as he did with the former group.

Thats a very good timely comment

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is not listed as a fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23.


I think that if people sincerely seek God (and not their own righteousness), God will give them an understanding of who He is and an understanding of His words.

Obviously you cant read. Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Cameron143]

When they hear the words of a preacher full of the Holy Spirit preaching the inspired message of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is being imparted to them.

Sure. But that is before belief.

 

[brightfame52]

Exactly right! Faithfulness is the other side of the Faith coin. Faith is the one time act of believing internally in the heart Gospel truth; whereas Faithfulness is the external, practical, ongoing expression of that one time act of inner, invisible faith. Faith is the seed; Faithfulness is the Fruit. And both REQUIRE supernatural work of God.

Exactly.

One writer writes

Faith - This is the ability to believe God when the conditions say don’t. Before a person is saved they are spiritually dead and have no faith to believe on the Lord therefore the Lord gives faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is always salvation first then once we are given faith, we then have the ability to believe. Here the word "faith" is a noun and once we have faith we then have the ability to "believe" which is a verb meaning action. So we have the ability to believe once we are given faith but not before.

https://www.scionofzion.com/galatians_5_21_26.htm

John Gill on Gal 5:22 Faith

faith; for though fidelity, both in words and actions, which is very ornamental to the Gospel, and a profession of religion may be meant; yet faith in Christ is not to be excluded, as it is generally by interpreters; for this is not of a man's self, nor have all men it: it is a gift of God, the operation of his power, and the work of his Spirit, whence he is styled the spirit of faith; and which therefore must have a place among his fruits; and which lies and shows itself in believing in Christ for salvation, in embracing the doctrines of the Gospel, and making a profession of them, which is called the profession of faith; all which, when right, comes from the Spirit of God.

People who oppose this, dont believe that Faith in Salvation is Holy Spirit Generated, but generated from their flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

When they hear the words of a preacher full of the Holy Spirit preaching the Holy Spirit inspired message of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit is being imparted to them.

Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing the Gospel of Christ

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

You can hear when the Holy Spirit Inspired message of the Gospel is being preach.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Sure. But that is before belief.

I believe if the Message is truly Inspired by the Holy Spirit, as you hear Faith begins.

A sinner can read the Bible and get nothing from it but words. But if the sinner hears the Holy Spirit Inspired Message of Christ, as they hear they will begin the Regeneration process of Faith, Belief, Repentance, Salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe if the Message is truly Inspired by the Holy Spirit, as you hear Faith begins.

A sinner can read the Bible and get nothing from it but words. But if the sinner hears the Holy Spirit Inspired Message of Christ, as they hear they will begin the Regeneration process of Faith, Belief, Repentance, Salvation.

A Spirit filled preacher isn't the same operation as the hearing listener. Peter was a Spirit infused preacher. Not everyone spiritually heard.
God doesn't need a spiritual man to preach for salvation to occur. He does, however, need an operation of the Spirit in an individual to produce hearing.

 

[Rufus]

What about if they hear the Gospel for the very first time? What do you mean by “the natural man”? Listen to Paul here:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

- Ephesians 1:13-14,18 (KJV)

What I would mean by "the natural man" is all the unregenerate in Adam. And according to Paul, no one [in Adam] seeks after God (Rom 3:10). Did Adam seek God after he sinned? Then neither do any of his progeny! Like father, like son!

 

[jamessb]

No. I think manifold more did not. But look at the order of events:
The Spirit comes in power.
Peter preaches.
The Spirit works upon 3,000 inwardly.
3,000 respond in faith.

At what point in the story was understanding given?

Acts 2:41

 

[Rufus]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And not only that one must be one of Jesus' sheep (elect) in order to hear (Jn 10:26-27).

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

A Spirit filled preacher isn't the same operation as the hearing listener. Peter was a Spirit infused preacher. Not everyone spiritually heard.
God doesn't need a spiritual man to preach for salvation to occur. He does, however, need an operation of the Spirit in an individual to produce hearing.

The Message being heard must always be the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit or a preacher is just preaching of his own mind and will.

 

[Cameron143]

Acts 2:41

So they believed before they had understanding. What did they believe? How does someone believe something they have no understanding of?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And not only that one must be one of Jesus' sheep (elect) in order to hear (Jn 10:26-27).

They are sheep if they do as Jesus explains: 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved

 

[Cameron143]

The Message being heard must always be the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit or a preacher is just preaching of his own mind and will.

I agree. But it's the scripture and not the preacher's understanding of it that is necessary. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is not faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the words of the preacher.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I agree. But it's the scripture and not the preacher's understanding of it that is necessary. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is not faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the words of the preacher.

Typically only those with the Holy Spirit preach. Why I said preacher. But I agree, it's the preaching of the scriptures they hear that begins the Regeneration.