Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[BillyBob]

That was an entirely different non-Biblical thread. Why are you "comparing apples and oranges"? Just to be spiteful?

The fact that it was non-Biblical doesn't make it right. Most people would go out of their way to admit their mistake. Expressing your desire for him to suffer is not the same as saying “I hope he doesn't win!”

I am just saying that such statements make me want to tune you out. However, I keep thinking that you will eventually post something that I can agree with!

 

[Magenta]

Faith comes by HEARING. HEARING must be given.

Luke 24:27 + 31

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Faith comes by HEARING. HEARING must be given.

In my personal belief.

I believe as the Gospel of Christ is being preached, as we hear it the Holy Spirit imparts the Faith. Because of that imparted Faith we have the ability to Believe.

But if there is no preaching and hearing of the Gospel of Christ, there is no imparting of Faith to believe.

So anyone who has ever been saved first Heard the Gospel of Christ. And this is why Paul makes it clear in a couple of places that Hearing produces Faith.

When preachers preach, if they do it properly, they do it under the influence and leading of the Spirit. So those words spoken have spiritual emphasis to them. And the way God created us, when our ears hear it, it's a doorway to the heart. Which the Spirit of God begins working on you. This ultimately leads to Faith and then belief in Jesus. It causes us to Repent and be filled with the Spirit of God.

But it all begins with people "must" be in the presence of the Gospel of Christ being preached so it can be heard.

 

[BillyBob]

Faith comes by HEARING. HEARING must be given.

This disagreement is much the same as the one made of Baptism. Do you need to believe before baptism? I don't think so, but discuss it with a Baptist and they have a totally different view.

I think that both are very important, but as a member of a reformed church, I believe children should be baptized because they are covenant children. However, I would not require this for parents who believed otherwise.

In the same way, I would agree that faith comes from hearing. Hearing is required, but I also also think it involves a working of the Spirit to become effective in the heart of a non-believer!

It's kind of like the old argument “which came first the chicken or the egg".

 

[Cameron143]

In my personal belief.

I believe as the Gospel of Christ is being preached, as we hear it the Holy Spirit imparts the Faith. Because of that imparted Faith we have the ability to Believe.

But if there is no preaching and hearing of the Gospel of Christ, there is no imparting of Faith to believe.

So anyone who has ever been saved first Heard the Gospel of Christ. And this is why Paul makes it clear in a couple of places that Hearing produces Faith.

When preachers preach, if they do it properly, they do it under the influence and leading of the Spirit. So those words spoken have spiritual emphasis to them. And the way God created us, when our ears hear it, it's a doorway to the heart. Which the Spirit of God begins working on you. This ultimately leads to Faith and then belief in Jesus. It causes us to Repent and be filled with the Spirit of God.

But it all begins with people "must" be in the presence of the Gospel of Christ being preached so it can be heard.

It's not our hearing. It's not talking about natural auditory hearing. It is hearing and understanding. 3000 were gloriously saved on Pentecost. Myriads more were not. They all heard the same message. But the 3000 were pricked in their hearts at the hearing of the message. Thousands upon thousands heard audibly, but did not hear spiritually. They were not pricked in the heart and did not respond. The difference was that one group was given hearing as Jesus suggested in the parable and were converted while the other didn't.

 

[Cameron143]

This disagreement is much the same as the one made of Baptism. Do you need to believe before baptism? I don't think so, but discuss it with a Baptist and they have a totally different view.

I think that both are very important, but as a member of a reformed church, I believe children should be baptized because they are covenant children. However, I would not require this for parents who believed otherwise.

In the same way, I would agree that faith comes from hearing. Hearing is required, but I also also think it involves a working of the Spirit to become effective in the heart of a non-believer!

It's kind of like the old argument “which came first the chicken or the egg".

I believe in baptism for believers only, just as for communion. But I think there is nothing wrong with a dedication ceremony for children. They are sanctified by believing parents and should feel at home in church.

Oh yeah. Put me down for chicken.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It's not our hearing. It's not talking about natural auditory hearing. It is hearing and understanding. 3000 were gloriously saved on Pentecost. Myriads more were not. They all heard the same message. But the 3000 were pricked in their hearts at the hearing of the message. Thousands upon thousands heard audibly, but did not hear spiritually. They were not pricked in the heart and did not respond. The difference was that one group was given hearing as Jesus suggested in the parable and were converted while the other didn't.

Did you not read the part I said when the Gospel is preached, the way God created us, when our ears hear it, it's a doorway to the heart?

That's not a natural thing happening. When I discuss the issues of this specific thread, I never am speaking of natural senses but the way God created us so when we are in the presence of the Gospel preached, a spiritual connection is made.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

If it's not able to be discerned that I am speaking about spiritual things, it's clear to me why you think God hates people. You just don't get it. Discernment is a Gift. Seek God and beg Him for it!

I think people think I am talking about the natural man.

 

[Cameron143]

Did you not read the part I said when the Gospel is preached, the way God created us, when our ears hear it, it's a doorway to the heart?

That's not a natural thing happening. When I discuss the issues of this specific thread, I never am speaking of natural senses but the way God created us so when we are in the presence of the Gospel preached, a spiritual connection is made.

I don't understand what you mean by...the way God created us.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't understand what you mean by...the way God created us.

We are made in God's Image and Likeness. We are made with a spirit. So when the Gospel is preached, our spirit is drawn to it even if the flesh is not. The flesh is always battling the spirit.

No human's spirit wants eternal damnation.
The flesh doesn't care what the spirit wants.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I am saved and have my spirit and full of the Spirit of God.
But my flesh doesn't care. It wants what it wants even if my spirit and the Holy Spirit is against it.

I am connected to God through my spirit not my flesh.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Faith comes by HEARING. HEARING must be given.

That sounds like heaven to me 😊

Luke 24:27 + 31

would that be the eyes of the heart 😊

 

[Cameron143]

We are made in God's Image and Likeness. We are made with a spirit. So when the Gospel is preached, our spirit is drawn to it even if the flesh is not. The flesh is always battling the spirit.

No human's spirit wants eternal damnation.
The flesh doesn't care what the spirit wants.

I believe we are dead spiritually, being dominated by Satan, and doomed in our fallen estate...Ephesians 2:1-3. So what died in Adam and Eve was their ability to relate to God on a spiritual level. There is nothing left in us to seek after God...Romans 3:11.
In this estate, we can know there is a God through creation and conscience...Romans 1:19-20, but cannot know Him intimately because we are dead in trespasses and sin.
Because I believe these things, I believe we must first be quickened to be able to respond. And I believe God does this very thing in salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

That sounds like heaven to me 😊
would that be the eyes of the heart 😊

That's one expression for it.

 

[Magenta]

Then there are the types of soil the seed of the Word falls on...

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I believe we are dead spiritually, being dominated by Satan, and doomed in our fallen estate...Ephesians 2:1-3. So what died in Adam and Eve was their ability to relate to God on a spiritual level. There is nothing left in us to seek after God...Romans 3:11.
In this estate, we can know there is a God through creation and conscience...Romans 1:19-20, but cannot know Him intimately because we are dead in trespasses and sin.
Because I believe these things, I believe we must first be quickened to be able to respond. And I believe God does this very thing in salvation.

The Hebrew shows the heart and soul are interchangeable in several verses. Notice in this Verse. Both the "heart and spirit" react together.

21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing...

There's 20 verses similar.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

One explanation is this
In the Bible the heart is considered the seat of life or strength. Hence, it means mind, soul, spirit, or one's entire emotional nature and understanding.

 

[Cameron143]

One explanation is this
In the Bible the heart is considered the seat of life or strength. Hence, it means mind, soul, spirit, or one's entire emotional nature and understanding.

The Bible distinguishes between the mind, heart, and will, particularly in salvation. Acts 2:37...when they heard this...mind, they were pricked in their hearts...heart...and said...what shall we do...the will. God engages with the whole man in salvation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

The Bible distinguishes between the mind, heart, and will, particularly in salvation. Acts 2:37...when they heard this...mind, they were pricked in their hearts...heart...and said...what shall we do...the will. God engages with the whole man in salvation.

It's really weird. I am not sure how Theologians have concluded this.

The Hebrew words nephesh (soul) and ruach (spirit) are interchangeable terms; so also are the corresponding. Greek words - psyche (soul) and pneuma (spirit). These are · also synonymous with the words for heart and mind.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

In 1 Kings 17: 21-22 it was the soul of a dead boy that returned to the body; in Luke 8 :33 it was the spirit of a dead girl that returned