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Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
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#21
it's the the father who knocks on the unsaved person.

The word of God is a seed that enters every heart johann.

When your saved you then knock 😋band get an answer,

An unsaved person can knock untill the cows come home, he won't get an answer
Rev 3:20 Hinei, I have stood at the delet (door) DOFEK (“knocking,” SHIR HASHIRIM 5:2); if anyone hears my kol and opens the delet, indeed I will come in to him and we, the two of us, will dine together at the BEIT HAYAYIN [“Banquet Hall,” SHIR HASHIRIM 2:4].

i. We might say that it all began with their spiritual blindness. If you are blind, you can’t look at yourself and see that you are wretched, miserable, poor . . . and naked. Mental darkness is worse than a loss of sight; but a loss of spiritual vision is even worse.
ii. “The Laodiceans are typical of the modern world, which revels in that which the natural eye can see but is untouched by the gospel and does not see beyond the veil of the material to the unseen and real eternal spiritual riches.” (Walvoord)

iii. I stand at the door and knock . . . If anyone hears My voice and opens the door: This statement of Jesus expresses a profound mystery. Why does Jesus stand outside the door? Why does He knock? Why does He wait until someone opens the door? Doesn’t He have every right to break down the door, or enter some other way on His own accord? But He doesn’t. The sovereign, omnipotent Jesus has condescended to work out His eternal plan by wooing the cooperation of the human heart.

iv. “The occupant must open the door. That is, he must repent of his pride and self-sufficiency, his human wisdom, and his cowardly neutrality.” (Morris)

v. “Christ stands - waits long, at the door of the sinner’s heart; he knocks - uses judgments, mercies, reproofs, exhortations, to induce sinners to repent and turn to him; he lifts up his voice - calls loudly by his word, ministers, and Spirit.” (Clarke)

vi. Jesus comes to the door as the lover in the Song of Solomon. This is similar to - or perhaps a quotation of - Song of Son_5:2 : It is the voice of my beloved! He knocks, saying, ‘open for me, my sister, my love.

v. The key to opening the door is to first hear His voice. When we give attention to what Jesus says, then we can be rescued from our own lukewarmness and enter into a “zealous” relationship with Him.
f. I will come into him: What a glorious promise! If we open the door, He will come in. He won’t ring the bell and run away. He promises to come in, and then to dine with the believer.

i. When Jesus says dine with him, He speaks of a specific meal known as the deipnon. “The deipnon was the main meal of the day and was a leisurely affair, not a hurried snack.” (Morris) This speaks of fellowship. This speaks of a depth to the relationship.
ii. “Supper (deipnon) was the main meal of the day. This was the meal at which a man sat and talked for long, for now there was time, for work was ended . . . it is not a mere courtesy visit, paid in the passing, which Jesus Christ offers to us. He desires to come in and to sit long with us, and to wait as long as we wish him to wait.” (Barclay)

Have a good day
J.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#22
Rev 3:20 Hinei, I have stood at the delet (door) DOFEK (“knocking,” SHIR HASHIRIM 5:2); if anyone hears my kol and opens the delet, indeed I will come in to him and we, the two of us, will dine together at the BEIT HAYAYIN [“Banquet Hall,” SHIR HASHIRIM 2:4].

i. We might say that it all began with their spiritual blindness. If you are blind, you can’t look at yourself and see that you are wretched, miserable, poor . . . and naked. Mental darkness is worse than a loss of sight; but a loss of spiritual vision is even worse.
ii. “The Laodiceans are typical of the modern world, which revels in that which the natural eye can see but is untouched by the gospel and does not see beyond the veil of the material to the unseen and real eternal spiritual riches.” (Walvoord)

iii. I stand at the door and knock . . . If anyone hears My voice and opens the door: This statement of Jesus expresses a profound mystery. Why does Jesus stand outside the door? Why does He knock? Why does He wait until someone opens the door? Doesn’t He have every right to break down the door, or enter some other way on His own accord? But He doesn’t. The sovereign, omnipotent Jesus has condescended to work out His eternal plan by wooing the cooperation of the human heart.

iv. “The occupant must open the door. That is, he must repent of his pride and self-sufficiency, his human wisdom, and his cowardly neutrality.” (Morris)

v. “Christ stands - waits long, at the door of the sinner’s heart; he knocks - uses judgments, mercies, reproofs, exhortations, to induce sinners to repent and turn to him; he lifts up his voice - calls loudly by his word, ministers, and Spirit.” (Clarke)

vi. Jesus comes to the door as the lover in the Song of Solomon. This is similar to - or perhaps a quotation of - Song of Son_5:2 : It is the voice of my beloved! He knocks, saying, ‘open for me, my sister, my love.

v. The key to opening the door is to first hear His voice. When we give attention to what Jesus says, then we can be rescued from our own lukewarmness and enter into a “zealous” relationship with Him.
f. I will come into him: What a glorious promise! If we open the door, He will come in. He won’t ring the bell and run away. He promises to come in, and then to dine with the believer.

i. When Jesus says dine with him, He speaks of a specific meal known as the deipnon. “The deipnon was the main meal of the day and was a leisurely affair, not a hurried snack.” (Morris) This speaks of fellowship. This speaks of a depth to the relationship.
ii. “Supper (deipnon) was the main meal of the day. This was the meal at which a man sat and talked for long, for now there was time, for work was ended . . . it is not a mere courtesy visit, paid in the passing, which Jesus Christ offers to us. He desires to come in and to sit long with us, and to wait as long as we wish him to wait.” (Barclay)

Have a good day
J.
the word of God is a seed that enters the heart,

The heart has to understand,

The ears cant understand.

The ears can not understand lol.

The word of God enters all hearts as a seed, saved and unsaved.

God opens the door.

He is the gate keeper.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
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62
#24

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#27
Do you came from mennonite background?
The Mennonites are a branch of the Christian church that originated from the radical wing of the 16th-century Protestant Reformation. They are part of the Anabaptist group, known for rebaptizing adult believers, and took their name from Menno Simons, a Dutch priest who converted to the Anabaptist faith in the mid-16th century. Mennonites are recognized for their emphasis on peace, justice, simplicity, community, service, and mutual aid. They maintain a strong commitment to pacifism and service to others as expressions of their faith. Mennonites have a diverse global presence, with churches in North and South America, Africa, Europe, and Asia. The movement has roots in Swiss and German heritage and continues to uphold traditions while adapting to modern contexts.

I am Baptist @wolfwint and are learning from Bob Utley-but most of my time I'm listening to debates between Calvinists and Armenians and WiseDisciple.
As for my own personal studies I am more interested in Koine Greek and Hebrew-the Grammar and Syntax and have a wide range and variety of secondary resources.

God bless
Johann.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#28
What do you think? Is salvation from man-a work-or is it from God-God's work? And who exactly is opening the door? Unless, of course, you totally disagree with the post-
It is really sad how supposed "theologians" make it their life's work to complicate the Gospel but setting up stupid "either or" dichotomies upon which they can make podcasts and write books.

The Gospel is simple.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#29
The Mennonites are a branch of the Christian church that originated from the radical wing of the 16th-century Protestant Reformation. They are part of the Anabaptist group, known for rebaptizing adult believers, and took their name from Menno Simons, a Dutch priest who converted to the Anabaptist faith in the mid-16th century. Mennonites are recognized for their emphasis on peace, justice, simplicity, community, service, and mutual aid. They maintain a strong commitment to pacifism and service to others as expressions of their faith. Mennonites have a diverse global presence, with churches in North and South America, Africa, Europe, and Asia. The movement has roots in Swiss and German heritage and continues to uphold traditions while adapting to modern contexts.

I am Baptist @wolfwint and are learning from Bob Utley-but most of my time I'm listening to debates between Calvinists and Armenians and WiseDisciple.
As for my own personal studies I am more interested in Koine Greek and Hebrew-the Grammar and Syntax and have a wide range and variety of secondary resources.

God bless
Johann.
I was many years in a mennonite brethren church. And Johan is a common name there. 😀
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#30
I was many years in a mennonite brethren church. And Johan is a common name there. 😀
I am from South Africa and the name Johann is very common here. To be honest with you-I had to look up what a "mennonite" is.
I was born and raised a Baptist but in my latter years leaning toward Reformed theology and the fundamental doctrines as it stands written in Scriptures.
J.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#31
I can see that I'm not very "popular"-but I am here for truth-not the opinions of men-to preach Christ and the gospel -For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

There is an infinite difference between the corrupt intellect of man—that is, the Arminians and other proponents of free will—and the Holy Scriptures. The question is: Does the obtaining of salvation proceed from man? Is he the only and essential cause of his salvation, or is God the only essential cause and can man, being absolutely incapable, do nothing to obtain salvation?

The Arminians will readily admit that God has prepared and accomplished salvation and that God has given and revealed Christ the Mediator. However, they attribute this acceptance and entering in upon that way to the good will and power of man. This could be likened to what transpires on a race track. The government has put the prize on display and has prepared the track. The acquisition of the prize, however, is contingent upon the runners themselves.

In order to protect the idol of man’s own ability and of his good will as being the cause of his own salvation, the Arminians would prefer to do away with the distinction between the external and internal call, between the noneffectual and the effectual call.

They would view them as being the same, and thus recognize only one calling. The effect would then not be due to the efficacious operation of God working more in one person than in another. Instead, it would be related to the outcome; namely, that the one person obeys the call by his free will (which enables him either to respond or to reject this call) and thus be saved. Another person will despise and reject this call by the same neutral free will. Scripture, however, rebukes and refutes such foolish thoughts and demonstrates first of all that the calling is effectual unto salvation as a result of God’s purpose, “...who are the called according to his purpose” (Rom. 8:28); “for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:29).

“And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48). Scripture conveys in the second place that there is no distinction in man himself, but that this distinction originates with God. “For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?” (1 Cor. 4:7). Man, however, by attributing the cause of one having more faith than another to his goodness and power, would create such a distinction.

There is thus a calling which is of an effectual nature and penetrates the inner man—his intellect, will, and inclinations, changing and sanctifying them. This is the internal call . There is a calling by means of the Word of God which is not accompanied by God’s effectual operation (which generates faith and love), but which comes to the external ear only. It leaves man in his natural state, who, in his wickedness, rejects this external call. He despises this call due to his free will which wills by way of necessary consequence. This is true of most who are called (Matt. 22:5, 14). We shall discuss both calls individually, considering the external call first.

What do you think? Is salvation from man-a work-or is it from God-God's work? And who exactly is opening the door? Unless, of course, you totally disagree with the post-

Shalom
J.
I asked you a simple question that only required a yes or no. I really wanted an immediate succinct answer from your heart, but I didn’t get one. As you might already have figured out, I believe there are two groups of Christians—Elect and free will. ….Yet, EVERYONE in this age, whether elect or free will, must accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. The Elect will always accept the Gospel. Why? ….because they have been predestined to do so and, as a matter of fact, they run into the arms of Jesus. They’re Elect!

Regarding the free will group, Ephesians ch. 1:13 actually describes a free will group of Christians who were hearing Paul (“a chosen vessel”—Elect) preaching the Gospel message:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#33
I asked you a simple question that only required a yes or no. I really wanted an immediate succinct answer from your heart, but I didn’t get one. As you might already have figured out, I believe there are two groups of Christians—Elect and free will. ….Yet, EVERYONE in this age, whether elect or free will, must accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. The Elect will always accept the Gospel. Why? ….because they have been predestined to do so and, as a matter of fact, they run into the arms of Jesus. They’re Elect!

Regarding the free will group, Ephesians ch. 1:13 actually describes a free will group of Christians who were hearing Paul (“a chosen vessel”—Elect) preaching the Gospel message:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)
So you are making a distinction between two groups-the eklektoi-and those with free will?
As for a definite "yes or no" you won't get that from me-not being facetious with you-this is not instant coffee-instant mash-a little bit of this-a little bit of that.
We first have a debate on any given topic-stay within the boundaries and Q&A at the END using Scriptures as our standard.

Here are speakers on the topic of free will-I have done my homework.
We have all the time to learn-right?



Free Will vs. Free Will?
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Grace Verses Free Will
PDF by W E Best

Free Grace or Free Will?
PDF by Jim Rooney

Free Will or Free Grace?
Web Page by J M Brentnall

Inability: Free Will Vs. Free Agency
Web Page by J I Packer

Free Will
Web Page by A A Hodge

FREE WILL
PDF by Reformed Study

Free Will
Web Page by Galen Stawson

Free Will
Audio/MP3 by Derek Thomas

Free Will
Web Page by Jeff Spry

How Free is Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Gordon H Clark

Free Grace or Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Henry Mahan

Free Grace or Free Will
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Agency
Web Page by John Murray

Free Agency
Web Page by Charles Hodge

Myth of Free Will
Web Page by Walter Chantry

Most Free
Web Page by Paul Helm

On Free Will
Web Page by R C Sproul

Of Free Will
Web Page by Reagan Marsh

Free Will — A Slave!
Web Page by C H Spurgeon

Against Free Will (Quotes)
Web Page by unknown

God's Will, Man's Will and Free Will
Web Page by Ernest C Reisinger

How Free is Humanity?
Web Page by Dr Timothy Jones

What About Free Will?
Web Page by John Samson

The Free-Will Problem
PDF by Scott Christensen

Free Will and Responsibility
Web Page by John Byl

Of Free Will
Web Page by London Confession

Evil and Free Will
Web Page by Ra McLaughlin

FREE WILL vs. VOLITION
Web Page by Dan R Smedra
What is Free Will?

Shalom
J.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#34
So you are making a distinction between two groups-the eklektoi-and those with free will?
As for a definite "yes or no" you won't get that from me-not being facetious with you-this is not instant coffee-instant mash-a little bit of this-a little bit of that.
We first have a debate on any given topic-stay within the boundaries and Q&A at the END using Scriptures as our standard.

Here are speakers on the topic of free will-I have done my homework.
We have all the time to learn-right?



Free Will vs. Free Will?
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Grace Verses Free Will
PDF by W E Best

Free Grace or Free Will?
PDF by Jim Rooney

Free Will or Free Grace?
Web Page by J M Brentnall

Inability: Free Will Vs. Free Agency
Web Page by J I Packer

Free Will
Web Page by A A Hodge

FREE WILL
PDF by Reformed Study

Free Will
Web Page by Galen Stawson

Free Will
Audio/MP3 by Derek Thomas

Free Will
Web Page by Jeff Spry

How Free is Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Gordon H Clark

Free Grace or Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Henry Mahan

Free Grace or Free Will
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Agency
Web Page by John Murray

Free Agency
Web Page by Charles Hodge

Myth of Free Will
Web Page by Walter Chantry

Most Free
Web Page by Paul Helm

On Free Will
Web Page by R C Sproul

Of Free Will
Web Page by Reagan Marsh

Free Will — A Slave!
Web Page by C H Spurgeon

Against Free Will (Quotes)
Web Page by unknown

God's Will, Man's Will and Free Will
Web Page by Ernest C Reisinger

How Free is Humanity?
Web Page by Dr Timothy Jones

What About Free Will?
Web Page by John Samson

The Free-Will Problem
PDF by Scott Christensen

Free Will and Responsibility
Web Page by John Byl

Of Free Will
Web Page by London Confession

Evil and Free Will
Web Page by Ra McLaughlin

FREE WILL vs. VOLITION
Web Page by Dan R Smedra
What is Free Will?

Shalom
J.
theres so such thing as human free will.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#35
Huh? That sounds like secular philosophy, not biblical truth.
A classic example when folks refuse to use the Scriptures-but would rather pontificate-wandering off into a maize-circular reasoning.


2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
2Co 10:6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.
2Co 10:7 Look at what is before your eyes. If anyone is confident that he is Christ's, let him remind himself that just as he is Christ's, so also are we.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#36
So you are making a distinction between two groups-the eklektoi-and those with free will?
As for a definite "yes or no" you won't get that from me-not being facetious with you-this is not instant coffee-instant mash-a little bit of this-a little bit of that.
We first have a debate on any given topic-stay within the boundaries and Q&A at the END using Scriptures as our standard.

Here are speakers on the topic of free will-I have done my homework.
We have all the time to learn-right?



Free Will vs. Free Will?
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Grace Verses Free Will
PDF by W E Best

Free Grace or Free Will?
PDF by Jim Rooney

Free Will or Free Grace?
Web Page by J M Brentnall

Inability: Free Will Vs. Free Agency
Web Page by J I Packer

Free Will
Web Page by A A Hodge

FREE WILL
PDF by Reformed Study

Free Will
Web Page by Galen Stawson

Free Will
Audio/MP3 by Derek Thomas

Free Will
Web Page by Jeff Spry

How Free is Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Gordon H Clark

Free Grace or Free Will?
Audio/MP3 by Henry Mahan

Free Grace or Free Will
Web Page by John Hendryx

Free Agency
Web Page by John Murray

Free Agency
Web Page by Charles Hodge

Myth of Free Will
Web Page by Walter Chantry

Most Free
Web Page by Paul Helm

On Free Will
Web Page by R C Sproul

Of Free Will
Web Page by Reagan Marsh

Free Will — A Slave!
Web Page by C H Spurgeon

Against Free Will (Quotes)
Web Page by unknown

God's Will, Man's Will and Free Will
Web Page by Ernest C Reisinger

How Free is Humanity?
Web Page by Dr Timothy Jones

What About Free Will?
Web Page by John Samson

The Free-Will Problem
PDF by Scott Christensen

Free Will and Responsibility
Web Page by John Byl

Of Free Will
Web Page by London Confession

Evil and Free Will
Web Page by Ra McLaughlin

FREE WILL vs. VOLITION
Web Page by Dan R Smedra
What is Free Will?

Shalom
J.
Thanks but no thanks. I don’t need a list of materials written by man. I have the Bible, written by God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,863
113
#37
A classic example when folks refuse to use the Scriptures-but would rather pontificate-wandering off into a maize-circular reasoning.
Since he's a new member, I'll give him the opportunity to clarify his position before responding further.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#38
Thanks but no thanks. I don’t need a list of materials written by man. I have the Bible, written by God.
No problemos-each one to his or her own, after all, we all need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,
Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#39
Thanks but no thanks. I don’t need a list of materials written by man. I have the Bible, written by God.
Thank you-you just steel man my case as I am more than willing to give and share links-and this is the classic reaction or response I'm receiving.

Shalom
Johann.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
#40
Thank you-you just steel man my case as I am more than willing to give and share links-and this is the classic reaction or response I'm receiving.

Shalom
Johann.
@HeIsHere you are clutching at straws-read the above post.
J.
 
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