The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It
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Another of your lies. Wow! How disobedient, rebellious, and obstinate you are to continue so in your dishonesty.
How pathetically sad that you think you uphold the law while repeatedly bearing false witness.
The position that some of God's laws are not moral laws is the position that we can be acting morally while disobeying those laws, however, there are no examples in the Bible where disobedience to any of God's laws is said to be moral and I do not see justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so the position that some of God's laws are not moral laws is the position that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws, which is claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.
All of God's laws are either in regard to the way to love God or the way to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey all of the other commandments that hang on them, for example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, kidnapping, favoritism, rape, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law.
In Romans 7:14, it says that God's law is spiritual, not that some of God's laws are spiritual while others are not. In Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, so none of them will ever pass away.
In Romans 6:14, it describes the law that we aren't under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under the Mosaic Law, but are not under the law of sin.
In Galatians 5:16-18, Paul spoke about the desires of the flesh as causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which again how he described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7. The Spirit is God, so it wouldn't make sense to think interpret that as saying that we aren't under the Law of God when we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
In Colossians 2:14, it says nothing to distinguish between physical or spiritual ordinances.
1.) You shall not commit murder.
2.) This person has been found guilty of murder.
The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. This fits perfectly with the list of sins that we have committed being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness.
Correctly understanding a spiritual principle will lead us to take physical actions that are examples of that principle in accordance with what God's law instructs. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they did not need to take physical actions to express love for their neighbor, then they would be missing the whole point.
The Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142), Jesus is the embodiment of that truth (John 14:6), and with all of the false accusations that you are spewing out, you are clearly opposed to truth.
In Romans 10:4, the Greek word "telos" can mean "end', though it can also mean "purpose" or "goal", such as with how it clearly has that meaning in 1 Timothy 1:5, Romans 6:21-22, or James 5:11, so this is a classic example where those who are determined to turn God's word against itself and be workers of lawlessness have the freedom to do that while a correct examination of the passage in context supports obedience to God's word.
In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).
In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite.
Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be ended with out first ending God. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal righteousness can't be ended without first ending God's eternal righteousness. Promoting rebellion against what God has instructed is not a basic truth of Christianity, but rather it is in rebellion against the basic truth of Christianity.
Us embodying God's word through following the example of the one who is the embodiment of God's word is the way to be joined with him while rebelling against God's word is the way to reject God's word made flesh. It should not make sense to you to interpret Romans 7:4 as saying that we need to die to God's word in order to become joined with God's word made flesh or that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for him in order to bear fruit for him, rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from bearing fruit for Him in order to bear fruit for Him, namely the law of sin.
In Romans 7:1-3, at no point was the woman set free from needing to obey God's law, and if she were to get married to a 2nd husband after the death of her 1st husband, then she would still be required to refrain from committing adultery, so there is nothing that leads to the conclusion in verse 4 that in the same way we have been set free from God's law. Moreover, you are interpreting Romans 7:4 in a way that is contrary to Paul's point in Romans 6:15-23, where we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so dying to the Law of God would be dying to God's gift of eternal life.
All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so why does it make sense to you to think that doing that is the way to incur God's wrath while rebelling against His commands is the way to avoid God's wrath?
In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from God's law, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20) while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished.
I'm not denying the salvation that is found only in Christ, but rather I am promoting it while you are the one denying it. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Christ is the way that he saves us from not living in obedience to it.
What have I said that opposes truth in exposing the multitude of your lies?
Nah, you are a liar. Expecting an honest answer from you is folly.
“I hate, I despise your feasts! I cannot stand the stench of your solemn assemblies. Even though you offer Me burnt
offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them; for your peace offerings of fattened cattle I will have no regard."
"What good to Me is your multitude of sacrifices?" says the LORD. "I am full from the burnt offerings
of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats."
You want to sit as a judge and umpire on another man's salvation-go right ahead-I'd rather work out my own salvation with fear and trembling-
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:1-2
"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged." - Luke 6:37
"Do not speak evil against each other, dear brothers and sisters. If you criticize and judge each other, then you are criticizing and judging God’s law." - James 4:11-12
These verses underscore the Christian principle of refraining from passing judgment on others, highlighting the importance of humility, compassion, and leaving judgment to God. The focus is on self-reflection, avoiding condemnation, and treating others with love and respect rather than judgment.
Don't stand in my face with "How dare you--"-the Nachash can quote scriptures as well and is still a Nachash. Learn the difference between ekpeiradzo or dokimazo another brother or sister IN Christ.
We are to try the spirits-did you know that?
Beloved (agapētoi). Three times in this chapter (1Jn_4:1, 1Jn_4:7, 1Jn_4:11) we have this tender address on love.
Believe not every spirit (mē panti pneumati pisteuete). “Stop believing,” as some were clearly carried away by the spirits of error rampant among them, both Docetic and Cerinthian Gnostics. Credulity means gullibility and some believers fall easy victims to the latest fads in spiritualistic humbuggery.
Prove the spirits (dokimazete ta pneumata). Put them to the acid test of truth as the metallurgist does his metals. If it stands the test like a coin, it is acceptable (dokimos, 2Co_10:18), otherwise it is rejected (adokimos, 1Co_9:27; 2Co_13:5-7).
Many false prophets (polloi pseudoprophētai). Jesus had warned people against them (Mat_7:15), even when they as false Christs work portents (Mat_24:11, Mat_24:24; Mar_13:22). It is an old story (Luk_6:26) and recurs again and again (Act_13:6; Rev_16:13; Rev_19:20; Rev_20:10) along with false teachers (2Pe_2:1).
Are gone out (exelēluthasin). Perfect active indicative of exerchomai. Cf. aorist in 1Jn_2:19. They are abroad always.
And let this be a reminder for all of us-
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
1Co 13:1 IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such N1as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers (N1the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).
1Co 13:3 Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or N1in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
1Co 13:5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].
1Co 13:6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.
1Co 13:7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
1Co 13:8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (N1the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].
1Co 13:9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).
1Co 13:10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.
1Co 13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as N1in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand N2fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been N3fully and clearly known and understood [N4by God].
1Co 13:13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Amplified.
Have a good day.
J.
I wouldn't think so--
THE LAW AND EVANGELISM
Similarly, the importance of the law is seen in a subject that is dear to the heart of every true preacher and every true Christian–evangelism.
In days gone by, children learned the commandments before they learned John 3:16, because only then did John 3:16 make any sense. Likewise, John Elliot’s first translation work among the Indians was not of John 3:16 but of the Ten Commandments, and his first sermon was on the commandments. Did John Elliot think the Indians would be saved by the Ten Commandments? Of course not, but the commandments would show them why they needed to be saved–they were law-breakers, and they needed a law-keeper to be their substitute.
John Paton, a great Presbyterian missionary to the New Hebrides, first taught the commandments. Why? People will never be properly interested in a relationship with the Redeemer until they see the terrible breach in their relationship to the Creator. The commandments are the moral mandate of the Creator to creatures. The sharp needle of the law makes way for the scarlet thread of the gospel. The law is indispensable in biblical, God-centered evangelism.
Run and work the law commands
But gives me neither feet nor hands.
A sweeter sound the gospel brings;
It bids me fly and gives me wings.
SUMMARY
The whole Bible is law and gospel, and the two are so vitally related to each other that an accurate knowledge of either cannot be obtained without the other.
The law reveals the character of God and the condition of man. These two kinds of knowledge are absolutely necessary for salvation. (See, for example, the first chapter in Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion.)
The law is essential to true biblical evangelism because by the law is the knowledge of sin. It was the law that was effective in Paul’s conversion: “I would not have known sin except through the law” (Rom. 7:7).
The law is the only biblical rule and direction for obedience–that is, a sanctified life. In what does sanctified behavior consist? Doing the will of God. What is the will of God in respect to morality? The moral law summarized in the Ten Commandments.
The law is one of three truths of the Bible that stand or fall together: (1) the law of God, (2) the cross of Christ, (3) the righteous judgment of almighty God.
First, if there is no law there is no sin because sin is the transgression of the law (The Ten Commandments).
Second, if there is no cross there is no hope for poor sinners–no forgiveness of sin.
Third, if there is no righteous judgment of almighty God who cares about sin or a Savior. These three truths stand or fall together.
The following statement by J. Gresham Machen, the principal founder of Westminster Theological Seminary will emphasize the importance of the place of the law.
A new and more powerful proclamation of that law is perhaps the most pressing need of the hour; men would have little difficulty with the gospel if they had only learned the lesson of the law. So it always is: a low view of law always brings legalism in religion; a high view of law makes a man a seeker after grace/ Pray God that the high view may again prevail. (What is Faith?, [Edinburgh: Banner of Truth Trust], pp. 141-142).
Preacher, preach the moral law; and parents, teach your children the Ten Commandments.
If you fail to keep just one commandment under the OT law, you are guilty of sin and will spend eternity in hell.
Since you have already failed to be literally perfect, you're pretty screwed at this point unless you get born again and repent of your sin and follow the Lord Jesus Christ rather than trying to earn your salvation by keeping the law.
Since you have already failed to be literally perfect, you're pretty screwed at this point unless you get born again and repent of your sin and follow the Lord Jesus Christ rather than trying to earn your salvation by keeping the law.
I agree with those verses. The fact that we are not required to earn our righteousness as the result of obeying God does not men that we are not obligated to obey God. There is a difference between the way to attain a character trait and what it means for us to attain a character trait. The only way to attain a character trait is through faith that we ought to be doers of that trait apart from being required to have first done a certain amount of works that express that trait in order to earn it as the result and what it means for us to attain a character trait is for us to become a doer of that trait. For example, there is no amount of courageous works that we are required to have done first in order to earn courageousness as the result, but rather the only way to become courageous is through faith that we ought to be doers of courageous works and what it means for us to become courageous is to become a doer a courageous works. The same goes for righteousness. We are become righteous by faith apart from being required to have first done a certain amount of righteous works, but becoming righteous means that we are becoming a doer of righteous works, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to be doers of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith uphold it (Romans 3:28-31). To say that God is righteous is to say that He is a doer of righteous works and it would be contradictory to say that God is righteous if he were not a doer of righteous works. In 1 John 3:7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works is righteous even as they are righteous.
Agreed. Notice however the distinction between the gospel as cited in your examples ("The Law says you're a sinner so you need Jesus") and the false gospel that Soyeong preaches ("Now that you've come to Jesus, you need to follow the whole Law").
If the Law is "not too difficult for us to obey", why did God provide instructions for remedy after failure to obey?
According to the Law, every person today, including every Christian, is bound for destruction because we CANNOT follow the Law's instructions for remedy. No amount of moralizing and quoting Scripture is going to change that.
The ONLY hope we have is Jesus Christ and the new covenant in His blood. Our hope is NOT in following the Law, before OR after faith in Christ.
Because the Law is one unit, failure to follow the instructions for sacrifice is just as much a violation as failing to love your neighbour. You are either bound to obey the entire Law, or you are not under the Law.
Since you preach that Christians must follow the Law, you must either preach that Gentile Christians must be circumcised, or you are not preaching the Law. You are either a Judaizer or a hypocrite.
In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it is presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience. Repentance doesn’t change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so if we needed to have perfect obedience for some strange reason, then repentance wouldn’t do us any good, but the fact that we can repent after we have not had perfect obedience and still be saved demonstrates that perfect obedience is not a requirement for salvation. Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience, then they still wouldn’t earn their salvation as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of why we should obey God’s law. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of of God’s law (1 John 3:4), so having the experience of living in obedience to God’s law is intrinsically part of what God’s gift of salvation is, not something that we are required to have done first in order to earn it as a wage. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God’s law are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law, so obeying God’s law through faith is the way to get born again and repent of our sin and to follow the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes... but what is the end result of sin? Death. Our salvation in Christ is ultimately from the wages of sin. If all that salvation does is keep us from sinning (quite so much) in this life, one would rightly question its value.
No. The experience of living in right relationship with God is part of the gift of salvation. The relationship is based on love, not law.
No! There is no such thing as "obeying the law through faith". You either actually obey the whole law, or you actually fail to obey the law.
Faith is in regard to things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), not to things visible such as obedience to the law. Having faith in Jesus is believing the truth that He died to pay the full penalty for our sin and that we will rise again because He rose again. We can't see those things.
It is REALLY UNFORTUNATE that you don't understand the New Covenant. CHRIST DIED TO FREE US FROM THE LAW. ALL ITS REQUIREMENTS ARE FULFILLED IN HIM.
Once you understand that then you will be a complete Christian. But until then...