The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It

[JaumeJ]

The reality is that what you quoted is not what you originally claimed Jesus said. So you lie.

Should not those 613 laws you claim are written on your heart advise you against bearing false witness?

PS, You are one of the reasons I love Canada.

 

[Soyeong]

The reality is that what you quoted is not what you originally claimed Jesus said. So you lie.

Should not those 613 laws you claim are written on your heart advise you against bearing false witness?

Rather, you are lying by denying that Jesus said that, as anyone who has read Matthew 5:17-19 can confirm.

 

[Soyeong]

Amen, we should observe the Torah as taught by Jesus. Stoning to death is not exactly mercy , and I know it is not a display of love for the enemy.

We must all learn all Jesus Yeshua has taught on the law, not just dwell upon those laws which are not held in His teaching, above all no stoning!!!

Jesus is one with the Father, so he was not in disagreement with what the Father has commanded.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

We are still obligated to obey the Torah. It was never abolished.

So when you sin... what kind of animals are you whackin?

 

[Stan_the_Man]

The Torah does not instruct people to go around stoning people to death.

If you going to be following the torah, you need to learn what it says and it does teach people should be stoned to death for certain things

Are you going to be using those really big rocks to stone people or a bunch of smaller ones?

I'd think the bigger ones will whack people quicker, but just be sure to only whack people that need whackin.

There's a lot of responsibility that comes with whackin people because you are following the torah

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So when you sin... what kind of animals are you whackin?

Calves and lambs run anywhere between 2 bills depending on the time of the year so I am setting live mouse traps.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But on a serious note. The Torah provides excellent information on the Ark of the Covenant which we can compare to Jesus, the Tabernacle which is the tent version of Temple (there is a Temple in Heaven so this gives us details to what Heaven's Temple looks like), the Shema explains the importance for Jesus 2 Commandments Love God with all that we are and our neighbor as ourselves, the Creation story, Noah's Flood, Nephilim and that connection with the enemies of Israel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob our Fathers, the Promises of God during that time, the plagues and Miracles of and escaping Egypt, Manna, Garden of Eden, Prophesies during that time for the future, Shiloh, Aaron's budded Rod/Staff, Shewbread, and much much more.

So the Torah is very vital to much our own beliefs today.

 

[lovejoypeaceetc]

Just do as Jesus did, remember all that he was teaching, Jesus and GOD are one he is the way to eternal life, follow his light and no one else and all will become clear to you.
I Am the Good Shepherd
Jhn 10:1 “Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever does not enter the sheepfold by the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.
Jhn 10:2 But the one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
Jhn 10:3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen for his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Jhn 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
Jhn 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will flee from him because they do not recognize his voice.”
Jhn 10:6 Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
Jhn 10:7 So He said to them again, “Truly, truly, I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
Jhn 10:8 All who came before Me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
Jhn 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it in all its fullness.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 The hired hand is not the shepherd, and the sheep are not his own. When he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf pounces on them and scatters the flock.
Jhn 10:13 The man runs away because he is a hired servant and is unconcerned for the sheep.
Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me,
Jhn 10:15 just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Blessings and welcome.

Thank you, this was good to read. It's also interesting that I've just been thinking about Jesus the Shepherd in the thread I started about Jeremiah (although that may have been a mistaken connection to draw).

 

[lovejoypeaceetc]

The reality is that what you quoted is not what you originally claimed Jesus said. So you lie.

Should not those 613 laws you claim are written on your heart advise you against bearing false witness?

I can feel your zeal in these words, it reminds me of the Lord.

 

[lovejoypeaceetc]

Being free from the Torah would mean that we are free to do everything that it reveals to. be sin. The greatest two commandments of the Torah are to love God and our neighbor, so that is not better than the Torah and it is contradictory to think that we should love God and our neighbor while also thinking that we are free from the Torah. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Torah, but to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Whether "we are free to do everything that the torah reveals as sin" can be left as a hypothetical, because why would we, freed by Jesus for life in the Spirit, grieve him who gave the torah? He didn't come to abolish it but to fulfill it, and love is the fulfillment of the torah. The same teaching shines in Romans 13 as in Matthew 5.

Let's say the torah is a schoolteacher. I remember schoolteachers, and now I am grown I am not under them, but I don't use my freedom to rebel against the truths they taught me, because now I know the same truth in my own heart. Likewise, freedom in God's Messiah cannot mean opposition to the torah of God. To love as God loves is to fulfil the torah, and go far beyond it.

Am I on the right track, dears? Let's be guided by God who gives us everything we have.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus is one with the Father, so he was not in disagreement with what the Father has commanded.

I have passed on Isaiah 9:6 so many times which explains the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One, ergo, thinking upon it, Jesus Yeshua is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are but One, as taught in both Testaments. This is believed on the gift of faith given me, so you cannot say Jesus Yeshau is not the Word, Who was in the beginning.

This mystery will be fully understood come th e Kingdom, fully.

 

[Webers.Home]

~
● Gen 26:5 . . . Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my statutes,
my commandments, and my laws.

Jews sometimes use that passage to prove Abraham's association with God
was regulated by the covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, but he was clearly excluded.

"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our
forefathers did The Lord make this covenant, but with us, we, all of whom
are here alive today." (Deut 5:2-3)

Moses' covenant is a compulsory legal system that requires its participants to
obey or else suffer stipulated consequences, whereas Abraham's association with
God was based upon an honor system wherein are no stipulated consequences
for disobedience.

For example: Moses' covenant prohibits dishonesty.

"Do not lie; do not deceive one another." (Lev 19:11)

When Moses' people fail to comply with that rule they get slammed with a
curse.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying
them out." (Deut 27:26)

Well; as all Bible readers know; Abraham wasn't entirely honest about his
relationship with Sarah. But Abraham wasn't cursed for attempting to
deceive certain folks with a half-truth because his association with God
wasn't regulated by Moses' covenant. Christ's followers enjoy the very same
advantage.

"Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the Law" (Rom 6:14)

"My brethren, you are become dead to the Law by the body of Christ" (Rom 7:4)
_

 

[Webers.Home]

~
● Heb 8:8-13 . . Behold, the days come, saith The Lord, when I will make a
new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah . . . In
that he saith, "A new covenant" He hath made the first old. Now that which
decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus,
Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy may be obsolete but that old dog can
still bark. In point of fact it will be the standard by which the Diaspora will be
evaluated to determine who enters Messiah's kingdom and who gets culled
from the herd and sent elsewhere. (Ezek 20:33-38)
_

 

[Webers.Home]

~
● Ps 110:4 . . The Lord has sworn, and will not change his mind: You are a
priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

Messiah's jurisdiction as a high priest is limited to a heavenly sphere (Heb
8:4). The earthen sphere is still the domain of Aaron and his sons in spite of
Jesus' intrinsically superior priesthood. And one day, in Messiah's very
kingdom itself, Aaron's family, and the Levites, will once again be at their
posts discharging their official duties in Jerusalem. (Ex 40:12-15 & Jer
33:17-22)
_

 

[hornetguy]

The Torah does not instruct people to go around stoning people to death. A Sanhedrin that executed once in 70 years as considered to be murderous.

From Leviticus... part of the Torah.... this is what you teach and practice? Or are you changing part of the Torah to fit your comfort zone?

9 ‘If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall certainly be put to death.

10 ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

11 If there is a man who sleeps with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness. Both of them must be put to death, they have brought their [g]own deaths upon themselves.

27 ‘Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist [t]must be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; they have brought their [u]own deaths upon themselves.’”

 

[Melach]

Being free from the Torah would mean that we are free to do everything that it reveals to. be sin. The greatest two commandments of the Torah are to love God and our neighbor, so that is not better than the Torah and it is contradictory to think that we should love God and our neighbor while also thinking that we are free from the Torah. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Torah, but to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

thats just hebrew roots talking.

think about it friend, we are under the law of Christ. not under the law of Moses.

1 cor 9:20-21 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law.

he says in one sentence not under the law but is under the law. which law?

 

[notmyown]

We are still obligated to obey the Torah. It was never abolished.

unless you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

the Sinai covenant certainly has been abolished, though. join us in the New and Better Covenant, won't you?

 

[p_rehbein]

We are still obligated to obey the Torah. It was never abolished.

The Torah is ONLY BINDING on those who deny Jesus as the Messiah and continue to live under the Law of the Old Testament. They will be judged by the Law as well, because of their unbelief in Jesus. How do you think that will go for them? Yeah, not well..,

 

[Magenta]

Rather, you are lying by denying that Jesus said that, as anyone who has read Matthew 5:17-19 can confirm.

What you said:

Indeed, Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19 that he came not to abolish the Torah

That is not what Jesus said. You lie. Again and again! Shame on you.

 

[Soyeong]

thats just hebrew roots talking.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't, it doesn't show that anything that I said was false.

think about it friend, we are under the law of Christ. not under the law of Moses.
The Mosaic Law is God's word, and Christ is God's word made flesh, so I don't see any grounds for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other or contrary to God's word. In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and again I don't see any grounds for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what he taught.

1 cor 9:20-21 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law.

he says in one sentence not under the law but is under the law. which law?

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of God with the Law of Christ by saying that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ. the Bible refers to the Law of Moses as being the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23, after all the Law of Moses was given by God and Christ is God.