The Security Of The Believer

[PaulThomson]

Jesus said, "and this is aeonous life, that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent." The idea of eternal/everlasting security is contradictory to the nature of aeonous life Jesus explained here. If aeonous life is being in a relationship with God through Jesus, then someone who has forgotten or forsaken God after coming to know Them through knowing Jesus does not have eternal life. And someone who forgot or forsook God who rekindles that relationship begins to have aeonous life again.
It is a terrible mistake to look for some bible-based proposition that we can lean on to insure us against the consequences of breaking fellowship with God and Jesus. The whole point of the Christian faith is to get into and abide in a relationship with God and Jesus. It is not supposed to provide us with a set of propositions that by holding to those while we live separately from God, we can escape the painful consequences of separation from God after we die.

We should be encouraging people to nurture their intimacy with God now, not finding arguments to make not doing so inconsequential in the hereafter.

 

[Chester]

Jesus said, "and this is aeonous life, that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent." The idea of eternal/everlasting security is contradictory to the nature of aeonous life Jesus explained here. If aeonous life is being in a relationship with God through Jesus, then someone who has forgotten or forsaken God after coming to know Them through knowing Jesus does not have eternal life. And someone who forgot or forsook God who rekindles that relationship begins to have aeonous life again.
It is a terrible mistake to look for some bible-based proposition that we can lean on to insure us against the consequences of breaking fellowship with God and Jesus. The whole point of the Christian faith is to get into and abide in a relationship with God and Jesus. It is not supposed to provide us with a set of propositions that by holding to those while we live separately from God, we can escape the painful consequences of separation from God after we die.

We should be encouraging people to nurture their intimacy with God now, not finding arguments to make not doing so inconsequential in the hereafter.

Well said - in defining "eternal life" one should start with the noun - life - What is life?

OSAS starts with the adjective "eternal" and lets the definition of "eternal" define the noun.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Well said - in defining "eternal life" one should start with the noun - life - What is life?

OSAS starts with the adjective "eternal" and lets the definition of "eternal" define the noun.

I believe there's 2 definition to OSAS.

1. You can never lose your salvation even if you spend the rest of your life committing every sin day after day after being regenerated.

2. You can never lose your salvation if you do your best to become like Christ and do the will of the Father.

I believe in definition number 2.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

OSAS starts with the adjective "eternal" and lets the definition of "eternal" define the noun.

You mean as in: 'eternal' Life as opposite of 'eternal' death?

My own 'eternal' Security of Life does not depend on my 'fellowship' with God,
But, On His Establishment Of An "Eternal Relationship" With me, as shown In
"What Saith The Scripture?":

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

my 'fellowship' will determine my "rewards/loss" In GloryLand, eh?
............................................................... (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)
Amen.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus said, "and this is aeonous life, that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent."

There was no need to introduce a strange and unbiblical term into what Christ said. The Greek does say αἰώνιος (aiōnios, which you misspelled), and the English translation is ETERNAL.
Other than the untrustworthy Weymouth and Young's Literal Translation (which is generally trustworthy but not here) EVERY ENGLISH TRANSLATION has the word "eternal". So if you are scoffing at that truth, you have a real problem, not the translations, and not Christians either.

 

[PaulThomson]

There was no need to introduce a strange and unbiblical term into what Christ said. The Greek does say αἰώνιος (aiōnios, which you misspelled), and the English translation is ETERNAL.
Other than the untrustworthy Weymouth and Young's Literal Translation (which is generally trustworthy but not here) EVERY ENGLISH TRANSLATION has the word "eternal". So if you are scoffing at that truth, you have a real problem, not the translations, and not Christians either.

The English word eternal is ambiguous. It means either outside of time, or never-ending. aiOnios is an adjective formed from aiOn. aiOn simply means a period of time whose end is not known by those in that period of time. An adjective cannot have a greater content than the noun it derives from. It does not automatically mean everlasting. It certainly does not mean outside of time. Young's literal Translation uses "age-during" as a translation of aiOnios, not "eternal".

Hence, I do not agree with aiOnios being translated as eternal. Aeonous is much more accurate to the KoinE Greek meaning. It means either lasting an age, or having the nature that is typical of an age. Jesus Himself defines "aeonous life" as "knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom God sent". John 17:3 The life of the age (to come) is living in fellowship with Jesus and God. Or, life that endures through this age into the age to come is living in fellowship with God and Jesus.

The Holy Spirit confirms we have that aeonous life by the expression of God's agape love evident in our behaviour. If that love is not evident, we should take that as a warning that we are not walking in fellowship with Jesus, and unless we repent and return to our first Love, He may say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you."

Aeonous life is not living forever. We are not yet immortal. We put on immortality at the resurrection of the just. So, if immortality were aeonous life, we don't have it. Jesus said aeonous life is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ. That we can do now, and have aeonous life now.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The English word eternal is ambiguous.

Only for Paul Thomson.

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
The English word eternal is ambiguous.

Only for Paul Thomson.

"Eternity, in common parlance, is an infinite amount of time that never ends or the quality, condition or fact of being everlasting or eternal. Classical philosophy, however, defines eternity as what is timeless or exists outside time, whereas sempiternity corresponds to infinite duration."
Eternity - Wikipedia

By your definition of aiOnios, do we have eternal life (zOE aiOnios) now, if we have not yet received immortality?

 

[NightTwister]

You stupid person

Predestination and Election are Paul's doctrines. And are throughout the whole scripture.

But they relate to us being a people chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of God's glorious grace, to be a people being conformed to the image of His beloved Son.

It does not exclude anybody from being saved. There is no predestination or election unto damnation.

Paul does not have any doctrines that are separate from Jesus.

 

[Evmur]

Paul does not have any doctrines that are separate from Jesus.

who said he did.?

 

[NightTwister]

who said he did?
"Predestination and Election are Paul's doctrines." Your words.

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
The English word eternal is ambiguous.


"Eternity, in common parlance, is an infinite amount of time that never ends or the quality, condition or fact of being everlasting or eternal. Classical philosophy, however, defines eternity as what is timeless or exists outside time, whereas sempiternity corresponds to infinite duration."
Eternity - Wikipedia

By your definition of aiOnios, do we have eternal life (zOE aiOnios) now, if we have not yet received immortality?

Yes, some of us do. Because it is the life that is of the quality of the aeon to come. John 17:3

 

[Evmur]

... they are Christ's doctrines

 

[PaulThomson]

Predestination and Election are Paul's doctrines. And are throughout the whole scripture.

Predestination and election are two of Paul's words. The Calvinist doctrines of predestination and election are not Paul's.

 

[Evmur]

Predestination and election are two of Paul's words. The Calvinist doctrines of predestination and election are not Paul's.

yo

two BIG words full of weight and substance [and if understood] glory for those who believe. I agree that Paul does not agree with Calvin in aspects of interpretation, one fundamental.

But he sure does disagree with Arminius and his human free willery.

 

[PaulThomson]

yo

two BIG words full of weight and substance [and if understood] glory for those who believe. I agree that Paul does not agree with Calvin in aspects of interpretation, one fundamental.

But he sure does disagree with Arminius and his human free willery.

Only if one reads exhaustive divine determinism into Paul's sentences.

 

[Evmur]

Only if one reads exhaustive divine determinism into Paul's sentences.

c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.

Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.

Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.

many are invited and only some choose to attend. Others have more important ideas. But if we just say “ we Lu some were invited “ it removes our own culpability

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. ( not the kings fault he invited them they chose )

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. ( not his fault he’s trying to be nite then to a celebration and they are rejecting it violently now )

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. ( that’s how he really is and why Jerusalem was destroyed )

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-9‬ ‭KJV‬

it’s always going to be the same God prepared eternal life for mankind and freely offers it . The condition is to believe what he’s saying and choose life

at he entire idea that God causes some to be evil and never repent and then sends them to hell based on his own doing is just really distorted view of God who is just to all

a what he isn’t is a puppet master or dictator forcing us either way he just sets life and death before us and tells us how to live

hearing and believing him is the way it’s an invite to the kingdom of God the gospel is an invite to life everlasting and it’s sent to us all

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s just true information he’s giving man concerning life and death believers of him will all be saved those who reject his words aren’t accepting faith

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Top reasons why OSAS is not true

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

1 Peter 1:14-17
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

 

[PaulThomson]

c'mon God's wisdom is exhaustive. He doesn't leave anything to chance.

The fudamental mistake of Calvin and others before and after him is in applying predestination and election to salvation.

Election is unto the church ... it excludes nobody from being saved.

Give one biblical quote that clearly states that as a biblical truth, and cannot be interpreted otherwise.