The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It
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How many people have you stoned to death recently?
You really ought not make up things and pretend Jesus said them. Shame on you.
I did not make that up:
Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You should take his warning against teaching others to relax the least part of the Torah more seriously.
The Torah does not instruct people to go around stoning people to death. A Sanhedrin that executed once in 70 years as considered to be murderous.
Romans 7:6 KJVS - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Following the law without a spirit redeemed by Jesus is spiritual death.
Following the law as a way of service has also been superceded by the New Testament system of service in the local church..powered by the grace of Jesus Christ, who is fully God.
I think that, it makes sense that we are free from the torah, as this is a clear New Testament teaching, and it also makes sense that we are to fulfil the torah by loving God and each other, as this is also a clear New Testament teaching.
I suppose that being free from the torah doesn't mean that we will contravene the torah, because after all it was a gift from God, and if we are now free, and love God, then we will desire to please him in a way which is not at odds with the torah: it is even better than the torah.
I don't know very much, please teach me your wisdom from God.
I suppose that being free from the torah doesn't mean that we will contravene the torah, because after all it was a gift from God, and if we are now free, and love God, then we will desire to please him in a way which is not at odds with the torah: it is even better than the torah.
I don't know very much, please teach me your wisdom from God.
Christians, especially those not descended from Jacob, were never under the Torah and are not obligated to obey it. We are no more obligated to obey it than a Canadian in Canada is obligated to obey the laws of Borneo.
Welcome to CC!
Your humility is commendable, but don't let it become gullibility to false teachers who want to put you under a law they themselves do not (and cannot) obey.
Also, bear in mind that the person who started this thread outed himself as a false prophet in another thread recently.
Just do as Jesus did, remember all that he was teaching, Jesus and GOD are one he is the way to eternal life, follow his light and no one else and all will become clear to you.
I Am the Good Shepherd
Jhn 10:1 “Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever does not enter the sheepfold by the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.
Jhn 10:2 But the one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.
Jhn 10:3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen for his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Jhn 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
Jhn 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will flee from him because they do not recognize his voice.”
Jhn 10:6 Jesus spoke to them using this illustration, but they did not understand what He was telling them.
Jhn 10:7 So He said to them again, “Truly, truly, I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
Jhn 10:8 All who came before Me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
Jhn 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.
Jhn 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it in all its fullness.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 The hired hand is not the shepherd, and the sheep are not his own. When he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf pounces on them and scatters the flock.
Jhn 10:13 The man runs away because he is a hired servant and is unconcerned for the sheep.
Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me,
Jhn 10:15 just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.
Blessings and welcome.
First you say obey, and tell us Jesus said words that are nowhere recorded in the Bible (shame on you
for lying about that), then you claim the Bible does not say things it actually does. You are ridiculous.
The transgressions punishable by stoning includes those who seduce their fellows to idolatry (Deut 13:11), those who actually engage in idolatry (Deut 17:5), those who employ the Divine name in a curse (Lev 24:16), those who offer their children to Molech (Lev 20:2), the medium and necromancer (Lev 20:27) and- a specific case with which we begin-the man who gathered wood on the Sabbath (Num 15:32-36).
That a מְקשֵׁשׁ is one who gathers something can be inferred from "let them go and gather (וְקשְׁ) straw for themselves" (Exod 5:7). Evidently the man was warned about the consequences of his action, since otherwise he would not have been subject to capital punishment prescribed by a human court. The wood gatherer was brought before the elders, who sat in judgment with Moses and Aaron, after which he was kept under guard until his trial. His sentence was known in advance-"whoever does work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death" (Exod 31:15)-but the form of execution was never stated. Only in the wake of this man's action was stoning prescribed as the punishment for public desecration of the Sabbath (Num15:35). Some believe that this penalty was applied to all Sabbath desecrators-a view reinforced by the Talmud: "It once happened that a man rode a horse on the Sabbath in the Greek period and he was brought before the Court and stoned."7 The rabbis believed that the wood gatherer merited capital punishment. However, Moses was not sure about the mode of execution.8 "Our master Moses knew that the wood gatherer [had incurred the penalty of ] death as it said, 'He who desecrates it shall be put to death' (Exod 31:14) but he did not specify by what mode of execution he should be killed."9 Therefore he consulted the divine oracle and the answer was "death by stoning. source
Being free from the Torah would mean that we are free to do everything that it reveals to. be sin. The greatest two commandments of the Torah are to love God and our neighbor, so that is not better than the Torah and it is contradictory to think that we should love God and our neighbor while also thinking that we are free from the Torah. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Torah, but to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).
In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with it mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive and that he served with his flesh. So verses that refer to something that would be absurd for Paul to delight in doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God, such as with him delighting in being held captive to sin, but rather we have been delivered from a law that held us captive, and it is the law of sin that Paul described as holding him captive.
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it has not been superseded by the NT system. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has aways been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.
This is the usual legalist response: if you aren't under the Torah, you are a profligate sinner with no limits and no remorse.
Hogwash and codswollop!
The indwelling Holy Spirit is a far better limiter of sin than the Torah ever could be.
I quoted from the Bible where Jesus said those words, so you're being ridiculous by making up random accusations that have no basis in reality.
I did not deny that some sins carry penalty of death by stoning, but rather I said that the Torah does not instruct us to go around stoning people.
If we are not free to do what the Torah reveals to be sin, then we are under the Torah. The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so it is contradictory for someone to claim to be led by the Spirit while claiming that we are not under the Torah. Likewise, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it is contradictory for someone to claim to be under the New Covenant while also claiming that we are not under the Torah.
The reality is that what you quoted is not what you originally claimed Jesus said. So you lie.
Should not those 613 laws you claim are written on your heart advise you against bearing false witness?
Amen, we should observe the Torah as taught by Jesus. Stoning to death is not exactly mercy , and I know it is not a display of love for the enemy.
We must all learn all Jesus Yeshua has taught on the law, not just dwell upon those laws which are not held in His teaching, above all no stoning!!!