Predestination is misunderstood...

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Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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it's not the ears that get saved first buddy it's the heart. It ain't the flesh that gets saved either it's the soul.

The word is the light buddy, and the light enters the heart.

That's for everyone, everyone has the light enter there heart, the parable of Luke demonstrates that, titus demonstrates it to. where by Gods offers salvation to all by his grace.


In Luke that grace, the word the light a seed is offered in the heart, that light does not receive and it's taken away, on three separate accounts mentioned in Luke buddy. Even one account where joy came aand the light stayed for a while in the heart before it was taken away.


But theres probably alot more than three accounts buddy.

heres why

1 Corinthians 15

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

this is also the parable of Luke buddy.

the word the seed the light.

is sown into to perishable body


into dishonor

into weakness.

But on many accounts it's then taken away.

And it's taken away before it's raised up in glory

That light hasn't bloomed in the heart.

but it was there. It entered.

WHy has it not raised up buddy.

the account of people who where raised up in Luke, where also dead where also perishable where Also in dishonor.

What happened,

Did the heart surrender to the light. ,Maybe probably

did the heart repent, maybe probably


did the heart then go and get baptised. ,Maybe probably


The light of all men has come into the world.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were

the light enters into all hearts, but rejects because there deeds don't accept the light.

the light stays for a while.

but then it leaves.


How long can it stay before it leaves.

Amen.
J.
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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Woohoo. In the saved persons heart there is no surrender to the darkness, tho his body cries stop, his spirit crys never

1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
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1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/files/images/eph.png
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
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How? Explain this for me.
J.
We expose the deeds of darkness by our godly lives as we maintain proper separation from the world.

If we’re no different in our thinking, attitudes, words, and behavior than those that do not know Christ, we have no message to give them. If you profess to know Christ, but you’re not walking in the light, conforming your life to His Word, then please do not let unbelievers know that you claim to be a Christian! If you’re comfortable with your sinful lifestyle, you may not be a genuine Christian. But whether you are or not, don’t link the holy name of the Lord with your disobedient lifestyle (2Sa 12:14).

But, if you’re walking in the light, you can no longer join in the lifestyle of unbelievers. As 1Peter 4:3, 4, 5 (See notes 1 Peter 4 :3, 4 :4, 4 :5) puts it,

For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries. In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you; but they will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

As you separate yourself from that kind of sinful lifestyle and live to please the Lord with all goodness, righteousness, and truth, your godly life exposes the dirty lives of those around you.

B. We expose the deeds of darkness by our godly lives and words as we maintain proper contact with the world.

Don’t go out of the world, or you lose any contact for witness. The Corinthian church was confused about this. They had mistaken Paul’s command not to associate with immoral people to mean that they cut off contact with unbelievers. And yet they were welcoming a sinning believer into their fellowship! Paul didn’t mean that they should break off contact with the world. Rather, they should cut off contact with any so-called brother who is immoral or sinning (1Cor. 5:9, 10, 11).

Here are four guidelines to follow as you seek to maintain proper contact with this dark world:

(1) Be on guard—bad company corrupts good morals!

You should not be best friends with an unbeliever once you have come to Christ. Your deepest friendships must be with those that share in common a love for Jesus Christ and the things of God. For a believer to enter into a close friendship, business partnership, or marriage with an unbeliever is to violate the clear command that we read earlier (2Co 6:14, 15, 16, 17, 18). If you do not distance yourself from your former friendships, those godless friends will pull you back into your old way of life. But, what about witness?

(2) Be alert to your purpose—to win the lost to Christ.

Jesus was known as a friend of sinners, but He did not hang out with them to have a good time. He came to seek and to save the lost (Luke 19:10). He said that He didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). He kept a fine balance that is difficult to imitate: He maintained His holiness and yet He put sinners enough at ease so that they listened to His message. It is in this sense that we must interpret Ephesians 5:14 (a difficult verse). Most likely it cites an early Christian hymn based on Isaiah 60:1, “Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.” Paul cites it as an example of the directives he has just given. It pictures the exposure of an unbeliever to the light with a view to his salvation. He is asleep and dead. God calls him to awake and arise, resulting in the light of Christ shining upon him. It does not imply that dead sinners are able in their own strength to arise from the dead, which would contradict the metaphor. Rather, with the command, God imparts the power to obey, just as when Jesus called out, “Lazarus, come forth!” (John 11:43). Light not only reveals sin; it also dispels the darkness. So we can call on sinners to awake and arise, knowing that God may impart the power to obey, resulting in them becoming children of light, with Christ shining on them.

(3) Be sensitive to show concern for the whole person.

Jesus said (Matt. 5:16-note), “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” Often, of course, we must tell people the message of the gospel. But that message must be backed up with genuine concern for the whole person. If someone is hungry, feed him and tell him about Jesus. The fruit of the light consists in goodness, which means, good deeds that show love for people. In that context we are able to give verbal witness to the gospel.

(4) Be bold to identify verbally with Christ when you are pressured to compromise your convictions.

This gets back to how you respond to dirty jokes or to someone who wants you to view pornography. Here’s the principle: Be as bold in your witness for Christ as the other person is in his solicitation to evil. If they are bold for Satan, why shouldn’t you be just as bold for the Savior? Smile and say firmly, “That offends my Lord,” or, “I can’t do that.” If he presses the matter, say, “I used to love that sort of thing, but now I belong to Jesus Christ and I want to please Him.” And share your concern for him, that he is under God’s judgment, but that Jesus offers him a full and free pardon if he will repent and believe in Christ.

Conclusion -

The church growth movement tells us pastors that we should make the church a place where unbelievers feel comfortable. So, we’re supposed to avoid subjects like sin, righteous living, and the coming judgment. Instead, we’re to focus on how to have a happy family, how to do well in business, how to overcome your addictions, and other upbeat topics. In other words, we’re not supposed to expose the unfruitful deeds of darkness, so that we don’t offend anyone. Just tell them how much God loves them! But Jesus said that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict (same Greek word as “expose”) the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Without that conviction, unbelievers will not see their need and flee to the Savior. Forgiven little, they will love Jesus little. Paul’s strategy is better: Walk as a child of light, maintaining proper separation from the world and proper contact with the world. As you do, your godly life and words will expose the deeds of darkness. Some will awake from the dead and Christ will shine on them, as He has on you.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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changed by whom.

We have to go back to beginning, we where discussing that faith comes by hearing the word.

But in the parable of Luke 3 account of a seed sown in the heart, was hearing the word, all in the natural man.

But no part of that natural man listened.

We where also discussing how a natural man should not be seen be seen as somebody who can not believe for himself, or as you put it being stripped of all depravity.

But there never is anything in the natural man according to Luke.

And he only hears because the seed is placed in his heart.

So I ask how can you grow faith by hearing for your self.

We know scripture says faith comes by hearing, but who is making you hear.
Romans 10:17
Matthew 13:10-17.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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How? Explain this for me.
J.
All don't have a God given choice, because all are in perishable state all are in dishonor all are in weakness.


Choice is being confused with free will.

This belief stems from a person must always have his own free will.

But a person in weakness and in dishonor and in a perishable state, does not have a God given choice, and there choice is following the devil.

There will and free will is not of God, until The light is received in such a person.


His or her deeds are evil, no matter what state there in or no matter what sin they have.

The wages for all sin is death.

The will and choice of such a person has to be transformed.


Otherwise such person will carry on making the wrong choice which is not of a God given choice , and such person will carry on, with a will he or she as always had from birth.

Which is they follow there own choice.

Which has nothing what so ever to do with God's choice.

Neither does choice anything to do with free will.
 
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In that case, I strongly suggest you change brands because what you're drinking is clearly not working.
hmm what brand are you on. And how do you make your coffee.

Do you ground your coffee,.or do you buy it already grounded.

The only way to truly be woken up by coffee is to be able to smell it


When you buy grounded coffee the aroma is no longer there

When I wake up of a morning, I always have a full pot of coffee on the brew from ungrounded coffee beans.

And the aroma is mind bogglingly good 😊
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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All don't have a God given choice, because all are in perishable state all are in dishonor all are in weakness.


Choice is being confused with free will.

This belief stems from a person must always have his own free will.


Two questions: Does God make choices? If so, does he do so freely?
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
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43
All don't have a God given choice, because all are in perishable state all are in dishonor all are in weakness.


Choice is being confused with free will.

This belief stems from a person must always have his own free will.

But a person in weakness and in dishonor and in a perishable state, does not have a God given choice, and there choice is following the devil.

There will and free will is not of God, until The light is received in such a person.


His or her deeds are evil, no matter what state there in or no matter what sin they have.

The wages for all sin is death.

The will and choice of such a person has to be transformed.


Otherwise such person will carry on making the wrong choice which is not of a God given choice , and such person will carry on, with a will he or she as always had from birth.

Which is they follow there own choice.

Which has nothing what so ever to do with God's choice.

Neither does choice anything to do with free will.
A W Tozer wrote that…

Faith rests not primarily upon promises, but upon character. A believer's faith can never rise higher than his conception of God. A promise is never better or worse than the character of the one who makes it. An inadequate conception of God must result in a weak faith, for faith depends upon the character of God just as a building rests upon its foundation…

Job told us, "Acquaint thyself with him and be at peace"; and Paul said, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." These two verses show the way to a strong and lasting faith: Get acquainted with God through reading the Scriptures, and faith will come naturally…

Study the Scriptures and you will find that we are not going to have more faith by counting the promises of God. Faith does not rest upon promises. Faith rests upon character. Faith must rest in confidence upon the One who makes the promises…

If our faith is to have a firm foundation we must be convinced beyond any possible doubt that God is altogether worthy of our trust… (Ibid)

The word - As discussed below rhema refers not just to words that are written, but which are proclaimed and spoken such that they can be audibly heard. One could paraphrase it "and hearing by the spoken word of Christ".

The word of Christ - The NET Bible note speaking to the meaning of the word "of" states that the "genitive could be understood as either subjective ("Christ does the speaking") or objective ("Christ is spoken about"), but the latter is more likely here." The Greek scholar A T Robertson agrees - “By the word about Christ” (objective genitive) which Alford says is the instrument or vehicle of the gospel message."

The only other place in Scripture where the phrase "Word of Christ" is found is in Colossians 3:16. Notice that the results of letting the Word of Christ dwell in us richly parallel the results of being filled with the Spirit in Ephesians 5:18-31. See the discussion of this important spiritual dynamic - FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT -- RICHLY INDWELT BY THE WORD.

I agree with Constable who writes that "The word of Christ could mean the word from Him, namely the message that He has sent us to proclaim (Ro 10:15). It could also refer to the message concerning Christ (Ro 10:9-note). Both meanings could have been in Paul’s mind. In either case the gospel is in view. (Romans 10 Expository Notes)

As mentioned elsewhere contrary to popular opinion in some circles the Gospel is not found in the stars. And as this passage clearly teaches, hearing requires the word of Christ (or God in KJV), the message of the Bible. General or natural revelation (such as the stars) is insufficient to save a soul!

Paul practiced what he wrote so to speak for he preeminently preached the Word of Christ…

For indeed Jews ask for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1Cor 1:22, 23, 24)

For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. (1Cor 2:2)
 
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Romans 10:17
Matthew 13:10-17.
We haven't discussed this enough,


It says here understanding comes with the heart, not the ears.

And where you not in this possition once.

Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
We haven't discussed this enough,


It says here understanding comes with the heart, not the ears.

And where you not in this possition once.

Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[
Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
 
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Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
He gives his wisdom freely 😊

But he only gives it to those who ask for his glory.

There is hope tho, I believe that a seed that is stolen can come again 😊