The Security Of The Believer

[wattie]

The above is exactly what I referenced in post #1951:

"Once saved always saved" in actuality teaches that one must keep on doing good works in order to be secure and have assurance of salvation. If you do not keep on doing enough good works (or if you are deeply struggling with sin - especially the bad, unacceptable sins, then it will be assumed that you were never saved to begin with.)

I believe one's salvation is determined not by whether you keep on doing works, or if you sometime in the past had a correct new birth experience. I believe one's salvation is determined by whether one is believing in Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying works have anything to do with it in salvation..I'm saying that since the Holy Spirit quickens and rebukes His children, then it is unlikely they will go off completely in the opposite way. But it is not impossible. I don't agree with the Calvinist in saying a believer will be faithful to the end. The Holy Spirit will..but the believer will be up and down in their faithfulness

 

[wattie]

I have read everything you posted and "nowhere" does the Bible claim it's a removal of rewards. That is something you are making up. Show me direct verses that say to reject or deny God is the removal of ""rewards?""

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJVS - 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I'm not saying they were never saved to begin with after having believed. I'm saying if there is NO fruit from salvation it is fair to question their salvation .

Yes, I think this is a good way to think. I just don't think we should make that completed conclusion since it is not in the Bible. We definitely have the right to question.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJVS - 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

And this depends upon what category of the "falling away," correct? Like you said if booted from church etc but they still believe. I also think there's a possibility of the other form of falling away to the point of just fully rejecting God, which their reward is damnation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Someone said to me the word trinity is not in the Bible. I said are the words Father, Son, Holy Spirit listed? Do they all imply it speaks about God? So God is triune in wording in the Bible?

But to say someone who knew God but rejects God was never saved has absolutely no Bible to back it.

 

[wattie]

Someone said to me the word trinity is not in the Bible. I said are the words Father, Son, Holy Spirit listed? Do they all imply it speaks about God? So God is triune in wording in the Bible?

But to say someone who knew God but rejects God was never saved has absolutely no Bible to back it.

Agreed

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

And this depends upon what category of the "falling away," correct? Like you said if booted from church etc but they still believe. I also think there's a possibility of the other form of falling away to the point of just fully rejecting God, which their reward is damnation.

Would that be:

1) "falling away" from True belief, Where God Eternally Saves, but receiving
"no rewards" In Heaven?

vs

2) "falling away" from False belief, thinking they were saved (of themselves?),
but, were always under Eternal Condemnation?

Amen.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Would that be:

1) "falling away" from True belief, Where God Eternally Saves, but receiving
"no rewards" In Heaven?

vs

2) "falling away" from False belief, thinking they were saved (of themselves?),
but, were always under Eternal Condemnation?

Amen.

More like something bad happened that instead of learning from they just blame God for until it makes them the enemy of God. Look at Job's friends and wife. They would had of cursed God and died rather than do like Job did. This scenario plays out millions of times in many Christians lives. And it's up to the Christian to choose how they view it. Unfortunately, some just blame God and it drives them away from all things pertaining to God until they become a true enemy of God.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

More like something bad happened that instead of learning from they just blame God for until it makes them the enemy of God. Look at Job's friends and wife. They would had of cursed God and died rather than do like Job did. This scenario plays out millions of times in many Christians lives. And it's up to the Christian to choose how they view it. Unfortunately, some just blame God and it drives them away from all things pertaining to God until they become a true enemy of God.

Precious friend, if you are referring to those "who have heard the Gospel Of
Grace," and reject it, they are already the "true enemy of God." However,

If you are referring to those "who have heard the Gospel Of Grace," and
have believed It, then there is no reverting Back to "being an enemy"
again, no matter "the behavior" of the Eternally [By His BLOOD and Life!]
Saved "child of God." - ie:

"For if, when we were enemies, we were Reconciled To God ​

By The Death of His Son, much more, Being Reconciled, ​

we Shall Be Saved By His Life." (Romans 5:10)​

[ Not by 'behavior!' ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑]​

Col_1:21 "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies​

in your mind by wicked works, yet Now Hath He Reconciled"​

​

Scripturally Confirmed By A Multitude Of Plain And Clear 'Reconciliation'
Passages (Security of the believer):

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

Thus, If a true believer, by "behavior" reverts to an "enemy Of God"
not "Being Eternally Saved" and The BLOOD Being "Insufficient",
Then:

"I do not frustrate The Grace of God: for if righteousness come​

by the law [ behavior ], then Christ Is Dead In Vain." (Galatians 2:21)​

​

Amen.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Precious friend, if you are referring to those "who have heard the Gospel Of
Grace," and reject it, they are already the "true enemy of God." However,

If you are referring to those "who have heard the Gospel Of Grace," and
have believed It, then there is no reverting Back to "being an enemy"
again, no matter "the behavior" of the Eternally [By His BLOOD and Life!]
Saved "child of God." - ie:

"For if, when we were enemies, we were Reconciled To God ​

By The Death of His Son, much more, Being Reconciled, ​

we Shall Be Saved By His Life." (Romans 5:10)​

[ Not by 'behavior!' ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑]​

Col_1:21 "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies​

in your mind by wicked works, yet Now Hath He Reconciled"​

​

Scripturally Confirmed By A Multitude Of Plain And Clear 'Reconciliation'
Passages (Security of the believer):

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

Thus, If a true believer, by "behavior" reverts to an "enemy Of God"
not "Being Eternally Saved" and The BLOOD Being "Insufficient",
Then:

"I do not frustrate The Grace of God: for if righteousness come​

by the law [ behavior ], then Christ Is Dead In Vain." (Galatians 2:21)​

​

Amen.

Job's friends knew God just like Job did and were not shocked when God appeared and spoke to them alongside with Job. And they tried to convince Job to curse God and die. Best proof someone who ""knows God"" can still choose to go against God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I agree it is very sad that someone can know who God is and still choose to make decisions to separate themselves from God. And that's what Job's friends were doing. Telling Job to separate himself from God and die. That tells me Jobs friends, who "knew God," would have chose to separate themselves from God and eternally die.

 

[Romans34]

I agree it is very sad that someone can know who God is and still choose to make decisions to separate themselves from God. And that's what Job's friends were doing. Telling Job to separate himself from God and die. That tells me Jobs friends, who "knew God," would have chose to separate themselves from God and eternally die.

I'm not so sure I would be so quick to say that Job's "friends" really 'knew' God. Many people today think they 'know' God because they know about Him (intellectual Bible knowledge). But unless one knows Him through Jesus Christ [through genuine repentance and faith], one don't really 'know' Him.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I'm not so sure I would be so quick to say that Job's "friends" really 'knew' God. Many people today think they 'know' God because they know about Him (intellectual Bible knowledge). But unless one knows Him through Jesus Christ [through genuine repentance and faith], one don't really 'know' Him.

God rebuked Job's friends which we know God corrects those who follow Him and are His. In those days, enemies of God met the edge of the sword. Job's friends were reprimanded and taught a valuable lesson.

 

[Romans34]

In those days, enemies of God met the edge of the sword.

Would you please state what time frame "those days" is referring to and how you know about God and His enemies at that time?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Would you please state what time frame "those days" is referring to and how you know about God and His enemies at that time?

That is the question since Job is said to have been written before the Torah. And we have good reason that Job speaks about the era of cavemen. But we do know from Genesis 6 until a great period of time God had the enemies of Israel killed by the edge of the sword.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

God rebuked Job's friends which we know God corrects those who follow Him and are His

And is someone that does not know God is speaking lies about
God to one of God's children... He'll correct them too ya know.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

And is someone that does not know God is speaking lies about
God to one of God's children... He'll correct them too ya know.

I agree.
But God would not spend 8 chapters talking to those He doesn't know.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

But God would not spend 8 chapters talking to those He doesn't know.

He would if it took that long to make the point He wants to make.

It's God's Word and He talk about all kinds of things most of us would question what was the point.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

He would if it took that long to make the point He wants to make.

It's God's Word and He talk about all kinds of things most of us would question what was the point.

If they were not known to Him He could have just killed them. But He spent time with them talking to them by way of rebuke. That makes me believe He knew them.

 

[Stan_the_Man]

If they were not known to Him He could have just killed them. But He spent time with them talking to them by way of rebuke. That makes me believe He knew them.

The Lord has been known to talk to those that are not walking with Him cause... that's His bidness is winning souls ya know.