Predestination is misunderstood...

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------------We have so much error rampant through this forum. Hopefully every believer listens.------------

Believers have a responsibility to point out error and guide others towards truth as part of their commitment to love, truth, and the spiritual well-being of the community. This responsibility is rooted in the broader biblical commands to love one's neighbor, to pursue righteousness, and to be agents of reconciliation and truth in the world. Several passages throughout the New Testament underscore this aspect of Christian duty:

Galatians 6:1 (NKJV): "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." This verse emphasizes the responsibility of believers to help restore those who have fallen into sin. The approach should be characterized by gentleness and self-awareness, highlighting the importance of humility and care in correcting others.
Matthew 18:15-17 (NKJV): "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Here, Jesus provides a process for addressing sin within the community, emphasizing the importance of private correction and the goal of reconciliation. It shows a structured approach to pointing out error, with the ultimate aim of restoration.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NKJV): "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching." Paul instructs Timothy—and by extension, all believers—to be diligent in teaching the truth of God's Word, which includes correcting errors and encouraging right living. This exhortation underscores the role of Scripture in guiding the process of correction and the need for patience and dedication in this task.
James 5:19-20 (NKJV): "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." James highlights the life-saving impact of correcting error and guiding someone back to the truth. It presents the act of pointing out error as an expression of care and concern for the spiritual state of others.

with meekness and fear: The manner in which believers are to defend their faith is critically important. "Meekness" suggests gentleness and humility, indicating that our defense should not be aggressive or confrontational but characterized by the humility that comes from understanding that our faith is a gift from God. "Fear" in this context refers to a deep respect or reverence for God, reminding believers that their ultimate accountability is to Him. This respectful approach ensures that the conversation about faith honors God and respects the dignity of the person asking.

These passages collectively illustrate that believers are indeed called to lovingly and carefully address error within the community, always aiming for the restoration and spiritual health of the individual. This responsibility is carried out within the context of a commitment to truth, love, humility, and the ultimate goal of salvation. It's important that such correction is done in a spirit of gentleness, respect, and love, reflecting the character of Christ.

I am only presenting the truth of God's word it is up to you to have ears to hear.

"those who have ears to hear, let them hear" ties directly into the varied responses individuals have to hearing the same sermon or the gospel message. This phrase, used by Jesus, emphasizes the role of spiritual receptivity in understanding and responding to divine truth. It holds the idea that not everyone will perceive or accept the message of the kingdom of God, not because the message itself lacks power or clarity, but because the condition of the hearers' hearts affects their ability to truly "hear" and respond.

In the context of the Parable of the Sower, which Jesus explains to His disciples, the different types of soil represent the various states of the human heart and its receptiveness to the word of God. The seed that falls on good soil and produces a harvest symbolizes those who "hear the word and understand it" (Matthew 13:23). These are the individuals who have "ears to hear" in the spiritual sense; they are open and responsive to the Holy Spirit's work, leading to genuine faith and transformation.

Conversely, the seed that falls on the path, rocky ground, or among thorns illustrates various reasons people fail to respond fruitfully to the gospel. These scenarios can be seen as examples of those who do not have "ears to hear." Whether it's due to a hardened heart, superficial acceptance, or the distractions and cares of this world, these individuals are unable to truly hear and embrace the message of salvation.

The phrase "those who have ears to hear, let them hear" serves as a call to self-examination and openness to the Holy Spirit. It's an invitation for individuals to consider their own receptiveness to God's word. Are they allowing the message of the gospel to penetrate deeply and produce change in their lives, or are they merely hearing without understanding or responding? This call underscores the importance of a prepared heart—one that is humble, receptive, and ready to be transformed by the truth.

Jesus explains that His use of parables serves both to reveal and to conceal truth (Matthew 13:10-17). To those with "ears to hear," parables unveil the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. However, for those with hardened hearts, the same parables obscure the truth. This dual function of parables fulfills prophecy and illustrates the sovereign work of God in salvation, where spiritual understanding is granted to some while being withheld from others based on their responsiveness to God's word.

In summary, the varied responses to hearing the word of God, as illustrated in the Parable of the Sower, are intimately connected to Jesus' admonition to have ears to hear. It highlights the necessity of spiritual openness and readiness to not only hear but also to truly listen and respond to the divine message, acknowledging the crucial role of the condition of one's heart in the process of receiving and living out the gospel. Without "ears to hear"—without spiritual openness and readiness to receive God's truth—individuals will struggle to discern the meaning behind Jesus' parables and the deeper truths of the gospel. The call to have "ears to hear" is a call to spiritual attentiveness and a receptive heart, which are crucial for understanding and embracing the truths of God's Kingdom as revealed in Scripture.
The main reason people don't listen friend, is because they don't take time to reflect, or spend quiet time with the lord.

Those who do spend quiet time with the lord, will help to restore people with kindness, and even take bitter insults.

You can take any scripture to the lord, and if you don't get a response back, well it's not that important to you.

God has jobs for everyone 😊 and a capacity for everyone.


But you can't keep talking a person's insults, when you have a life to lead of your own.

When you correct your child and chastise them out of love, you correct them out of love. as being kind and not chastising them hasn't worked.

The times comes when you have to be a caring parent and serve justice to your unruly child.

The child who doesn't accept correction, is in danger of growing up to be unruly for the rest of his life.

So you have to correct them at every stage of the childhood, in love and kindness and gentleness.

Obviously we must have many people here who haven't been corrected in love accordingly.

So it will not matter how kind you are to such people, they will just never see your kindness as genuine or your love.

What they need is someone who can break through there chains. And find a loving relationship, the only person who can put such a person right is God.

Not me friend, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make them drink.

Obviously you haven't witnessed the insults I have had to endure of certain people here. Or insults I have had to endure that friends have been on the recieving end also. But you know what, I ain't in the slightest bit bothered anymore what further insults are to come.


I have a plan. 😊

 
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2 Corinthians 6 is written to believers. It is not dealing with salvation, but sanctification. Paul tells the people about his love and concern for them and instructs them on a number of areas where their conduct is no different from that of heathens. And he calls them out of the sin that they are engaging in and live acceptably before God.
every person is made to believe by the lord in some way, you will always get new believers amongst grown believers

Paul went to a group of believers who didn't even know who the holy spirit was.

They hadn't received the holy spirit, because they hadn't been baptised in the name of the lord.



And I believe your looking at believers in a different light half the time.

A lot of people whom Paul was addressing where people of a faith who had not excelled like a true Hebrew 😊

There will be many people of a congregation, but you will still always get a black sheep of the family, as to how many black sheep in a family there are,

Well many are called few are chosen
 

Cameron143

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every person is made to believe by the lord in some way, you will always get new believers amongst grown believers

Paul went to a group of believers who didn't even know who the holy spirit was.

They hadn't received the holy spirit, because they hadn't been baptised in the name of the lord.



And I believe your looking at believers in a different light half the time.

A lot of people whom Paul was addressing where people of a faith who had not excelled like a true Hebrew 😊

There will be many people of a congregation, but you will still always get a black sheep of the family, as to how many black sheep in a family there are,

Well many are called few are chosen
I will grant you that amongst any group of believers there are those who are not saved. But this is a church Paul founded. He understands the people and their sin. There was a man in the congregation living intimately with his own mother. They were making a mockery of communion. All manner of sin was taking place. So much so that Paul tells them that their sin is greater than that of pagan...1 Corinthians 5:1. So, Paul is not primarily concerned with salvation in the passage in 2 Corinthians 6, but is calling them to a life of purity that reflects the life of one who bears the name of Christ.
 
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I will grant you that amongst any group of believers there are those who are not saved. But this is a church Paul founded. He understands the people and their sin. There was a man in the congregation living intimately with his own mother. They were making a mockery of communion. All manner of sin was taking place. So much so that Paul tells them that their sin is greater than that of pagan...1 Corinthians 5:1. So, Paul is not primarily concerned with salvation in the passage in 2 Corinthians 6, but is calling them to a life of purity that reflects the life of one who bears the name of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1

New International Version



1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is just the start of a letter that is addressed to the leaders of the Corinthian church,

Then the rest of his letter is addressed on how people of the church and people coming to the church should be corrected.

There is also correction for leaders of this Corinthian church to.
 

Cameron143

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1 Corinthians 1

New International Version



1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is just the start of a letter that is addressed to the leaders of the Corinthian church,

Then the rest of his letter is addressed on how people of the church and people coming to the church should be corrected.

There is also correction for leaders of this Corinthian church to.
That's my point. It's dealing with appropriate conduct and not salvation.
 
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That's my point. It's dealing with appropriate conduct and not salvation.
second part of the Corinthian letter is addressed to the leaders of the church who can't come together for the sake of church.

A Church Divided Over Leaders
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.


Obviously even the leaders of the Corinthian church, where not believing correctly
 

Cameron143

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second part of the Corinthian letter is addressed to the leaders of the church who can't come together for the sake of church.

A Church Divided Over Leaders
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.


Obviously even the leaders of the Corinthian church, where not believing correctly
I agree. But going back to our initial conversation, the verse in question is dealing with sanctification and not salvation.
 
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I agree. But going back to our initial conversation, the verse in question is dealing with sanctification and not salvation.
Well we have just come to understand not.all the Corinthian church where true believers.

So how can a believer who is not a true believer be sanctified.
 

Cameron143

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Well we have just come to understand not.all the Corinthian church where true believers.

So how can a believer who is not a true believer be sanctified.
Sanctified means set apart. It doesn't mean saved. Read 1 Corinthians 7:14. Unbelieving spouses are sanctified by believing spouses.
 

tylerbones1313

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But man is responsible before God at inception whether he acknowledges it or not. Romans 1 teaches of this accountability as well as John 3:17.
But what is the impetus for belief? 2 people hear the same sermon. One gets saved and another does not. Why the different responses?
But what is the impetus for belief?
A heart (Types of soil (heart) Wayside heart, Stony heart, Thorny heart, Good (faithful) heart) the Truly hears the Word of God (The Seed sown). If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

2 people hear the same sermon. One gets saved and another does not. Why the different responses?
Faith cometh by hearing: This part is saying that faith, or belief in God and the teachings of Christ, starts with listening. It's not just about hearing sounds; it's about truly listening and understanding what's being said.
Hearing by the word of God: This is what kind of hearing we're talking about. It's not any kind of hearing, but specifically listening to the "word of God." This could mean reading the Bible, listening to sermons, or any other way of engaging with God's teachings. The idea is that when people really pay attention to God's message, and respond to the convicting power of His Word, with embrace and humbleness of heart before God, instead of running away in worldly fear.

I hope that help answer what you needed to know. God Bless you.
 
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Sanctified means set apart. It doesn't mean saved. Read 1 Corinthians 7:14. Unbelieving spouses are sanctified by believing spouses.
Do you believe in progressive sanctification,. Where as, as your faith grows you are sanctified progressively by the indwelling of the holy spirit.

Then there is the full sanctification when a person is joined in with Christ in person.

For the indwelling of the holy spirit, it must be the lord has to receive them, as in the initial discussion,.if they don't separate and surender and no longer touch what is unclean, then how can they be received and how can progressive sanctification begin
 

tylerbones1313

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1 Corinthians 7:14. Unbelieving spouses are sanctified by believing spouses.
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: Paul is addressing a concern among early Christians that being married to an unbeliever could somehow make them impure or their marriage invalid in God's eyes. He reassures them that this is not the case. The word "sanctified" here doesn't mean that the unbelieving spouse is made holy in the sense of being saved or becoming a believer through the marriage. Instead, it suggests that the marriage itself is considered legitimate and holy (set apart) in God's eyes, and that the believing spouse's faith has a kind of sanctifying influence on the home. This means that the presence of a believer in the marriage brings God's blessings to the family, even if one spouse has not embraced the Christian faith.

The life of the believing spouse, characterized by love, forgiveness, patience, kindness, and adherence to Christian principles, can serve as a powerful witness to the unbelieving spouse. This isn't about preaching at every opportunity, but rather living out one's faith in such a genuine way that it becomes attractive. The hope is that the unbelieving spouse will see the transformation and peace in the believer's life and be drawn to the source of that change, which is their relationship with God.
 

Cameron143

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Do you believe in progressive sanctification,. Where as, as your faith grows you are sanctified progressively by the indwelling of the holy spirit.

Then there is the full sanctification when a person is joined in with Christ in person.

For the indwelling of the holy spirit, it must be the lord has to receive them, as in the initial discussion,.if they don't separate and surender and no longer touch what is unclean, then how can they be received and how can progressive sanctification begin
We are both set apart and being progressively set apart as a result of the work of the Spirit. But a trap that many Christians fall into is that they can live the life they are called to in their own strength. We are no more able to keep the law than our unsaved counterparts. The law serves for us as a reminder to turn continuously to Christ for help...apart from me, ye can do nothing. And as we lean on Him, He lives through us. He is not only our salvation, but also our sanctification.
 

Johann

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Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It doesn't necessarily refer to predestination, the idea that God predetermines who will be saved. Here's why:

Context of the Parable: This verse comes from the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where a king throws a banquet and invites many guests. Some refuse, while others come unprepared. The "chosen" refers to those who attend appropriately dressed, symbolizing those who accept God's invitation and live according to his teachings.
Focus on Response: The parable emphasizes the importance of human response to God's invitation. It's not about a predetermined fate, but about actively accepting God's grace.
Universality of God's Love: The Bible emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16). This verse in Matthew doesn't contradict that message. It simply highlights the importance of accepting God's offer.
Or-alternatively-

For many are called, but few are chosen.
For many are called, but few are chosen. So Mat_19:30. See the note at Mat_20:16.
Remarks:
(1) What claim to supreme Divinity brighter and more precious than our Lord here advances can be conceived? Observe the succession of ideas, as unfolded in the Old Testament, and how Jesus places Himself in the center of them. First, all the gracious relations which Yahweh is represented as sustaining to His people culminate in the intimate and endearing one of a marriage-union (Jer_3:14; Hos_2:16; etc).

But next, when the nuptial-song of this high union is sung, in Psa_45:1-17, we find it to celebrate a union, not directly and immediately between Yahweh and the Church, but between Messiah and the Church; yet a Messiah who, while anointed of God with the oil of gladness above His fellows, is addressed in the Psalm as Himself God: so that it is just Yahweh in the Person of Messiah "the King" who in that nuptial-song is celebrated as taking the Church to be His Bride.

But this is not all; because in other predictions this Divine Messiah is expressly called the Son of God (Psa_2:7; Psa_2:12; compare Pro_30:4; Dan_3:25). Such being the representations of the Old Testament, what does Jesus here but serve Himself to Heir to them, holding Himself forth as Himself the King's of Old Testament prophecy, as the Anointed King in whose Person Yahweh was to marry His people to Himself, and whose nuptials are celebrated in the lofty Messianic Psalm to which we have adverted?

(2) As in the parable of the Great Supper (Luk_14:1-35), so here, it is not those who have all along basked in the sunshine of religious privileges who are the readiest to embrace the Gospel call, but the very opposite classes. And is it not so still?

(3) The terrible destruction which fell upon Jerusalem, and the breaking up and dispersion and wretchedness of the nation which ensued, and continues to this hour-what a warning are they of that vengeance of God which awaits the despisers of His Son!

(4) Though sinners are invited to Christ as they are, and salvation is "without money and without price," we are "accepted," only "in the Beloved" (Eph_1:6); if there be "no condemnation," it is "to them that are in Christ Jesus" (Rom_8:1). These are they that have "put on the Lord Jesus" (Rom_13:14; Gal_3:27). This is to have the wedding garment.

(5) Though we may deceive not only others but ourselves, there is an Eye which comes in expressly to see the guests; the one thing He looks for is that wedding garment; and among myriads of persons, all professing to be His, He can discern even one who is not.

(6) No moral or religious excellences will compensate for the absence of this wedding garment. If we have not put on the Lord Jesus, if we are not "in Christ Jesus," our doom is sealed; and what a doom-to be cast indignantly and without the power of resistance into outer darkness, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth! Oh! Do men really believe that this doom awaits those who, however exemplary in other respects, venture to present themselves before God out of Christ?
JFB.


"wedding clothes" Through the years many commentators have noted the problems between Matt. 22:9-10 and 11. It does not mention banquet preparation in 9-10, but demands it in Matt. 22:11. Augustine, following some limited historical evidence, assumed that the host provided a special party garment. This would mean the man refused it or entered in an inappropriate way. The inappropriately dressed man seems to recognize his position by his lack of response in Matt. 22:12.

22:13 As earlier in Matt. 22:6 and 7, Matt. 22:13 is a shocking statement. Possibly all of these verses are meant to be Oriental overstatements (hyperboles); however, the severity of the punishment fits the crime of rejecting God's gracious offer (cf. Matt. 22:6-7) and refusing to walk in God's grace (cf. Matt. 22:13).

"throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" This was a common idiom used often in Matthew to describe the condition of humans who reject God (cf. Matt. 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). It implied a current (cf. Luke 16:19-31) as well as eschatological setting (cf. Matt. 24:51).

22:14 This is a difficult verse to interpret. Many say it relates to Matt. 22:2-10, but not 11-13. It seems to focus on God's gracious gift extended to all (i.e., John 1:12; 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9). However, fallen mankind must respond appropriately. God does choose, but He has chosen that mankind must respond by repentance and faith--no other way-- (cf. Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21) to the gospel of Jesus mediated through the wooing of the Holy Spirit (cf. John. 6:44,65).
This verse may relate to God's revelation to the children of Abraham (cf. Acts 3:26; Rom. 1:16; 2:9). They rejected God's offer in Christ, so the gospel was given to the Gentiles who eagerly embraced it (i.e., Romans 9-11). This entire context expresses the truth that the expected outcome in spiritual matters was going to be reversed (cf. Matt. 19:30; 20:16)!

J.
 

Johann

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We are both set apart and being progressively set apart as a result of the work of the Spirit. But a trap that many Christians fall into is that they can live the life they are called to in their own strength. We are no more able to keep the law than our unsaved counterparts. The law serves for us as a reminder to turn continuously to Christ for help...apart from me, ye can do nothing. And as we lean on Him, He lives through us. He is not only our salvation, but also our sanctification.
They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally,1 through the same virtue, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them;2 the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,3 and the several lusts of it are more and more weakened and mortified,4 and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,5 to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.6

1 Acts 20:32; Rom. 6:5–6
2 John 17:17; Eph. 3:16–19; 1 Thess. 5:21–23
3 Rom. 6:14
4 Gal. 5:24
5 Col. 1:11
6 2 Cor. 7:1; Heb. 12:14


PARAGRAPH 2
This sanctification is throughout the whole man,7 yet imperfect in this life; there abides still some remnants of corruption in every part,8 wherefrom arises a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.9

7 1 Thess. 5:23
8 Rom. 7:18,23
9 Gal. 5:17; 1 Pet. 2:11


PARAGRAPH 3
In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail,10 yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome;11 and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in his Word has prescribed to them.12

10 Rom. 7:23
11 Rom. 6:14
12 Eph. 4:15–16; 2 Cor. 3:18, 7:1

Yes @Cameron143?
J.
 
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We are both set apart and being progressively set apart as a result of the work of the Spirit. But a trap that many Christians fall into is that they can live the life they are called to in their own strength. We are no more able to keep the law than our unsaved counterparts. The law serves for us as a reminder to turn continuously to Christ for help...apart from me, ye can do nothing. And as we lean on Him, He lives through us. He is not only our salvation, but also our sanctification.
I don't go for any of this keeping of the law malarkey,

There's a set of instructions that if followed, ye will not sin.

Is called guarding your heart.

If you hold on to the jewel in your heart you don't sin.


If you take every thought captive and take it to your heart, you dont sin.

If you hold on to your heart stay away from trouble, honour your marriage, and live a quiet life you don't sin.

If you hold on to your heart stay clean, you don't sin

If your organised and treat people with kindness you don't sin.

If you engage with argumentive dead beats for to long you sin.