The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

... according to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





1 John 3:5 does not state that "by His death alone He took away their sins":

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


Why must you continuously re-write what the Author of Scripture has written???

Just read what is written, believe what is written, and let the Author of Scripture work in your heart to bring understanding so that you know what the Author of Scripture wants you to know just as He has written it.

There is absolutely no reason for you to re-write what is written in in 1 John 3:5 (or any other verse in Scripture) ... unless you do not believe what is written in 1 John 3:5 (or any other verse in Scripture) ... just sayin'


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Christs death is limited to them who by His Death took away their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

According to Scripture, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





... no it's not.

The Lord Jesus Christ abolished death. Period.

Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ have no other offering which will take away their sin. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way. If the Lord Jesus Christ is rejected, their sin remains and they will be judged.





You again rip a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it in order to prop up your vain and empty reasonings.

You lifted one verse from the message written in Rev 2:8 - 11:

Revelation 2:

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


According to Scripture, He that overcometh is the one who remains faithful in times of tribulation, poverty, blasphemy of others, even if dishonestly cast into prison.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Nobody Christ died for can die in their sins in unbelief, all that has been taken away by His death for them

 

[BillyBob]

Nobody Christ died for can die in their sins in unbelief, all that has been taken away by His death for them

The will cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil.

God, please let Christ's atonement cleanse your people, and give each a new heart! Only then, are we enabled us to please you in any way! Now that is indeed GRACE!

 

[brightfame52]

He fulfilled all Righteousness for His People the Church !

Matt 3:15

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

I believe this includes the fulfilling of the Righteousness of the Law Rom 8:4

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Christ's coming to the earth was also in regard to keeping the Law, Honoring it as it should have been Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

He magnified it by keeping it for His People the Church, Christ as Adam did, did a Representative Work, He lived and died in the behalf of Gods People, those who also had a Representative Union with Him from before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Christ for this Representative Work had all the fruits and graces of the Spirit Isa 11:1-5

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

He was given the Spirit without measure Jn 3:34

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Hence Christ as the Representative Surety of His People while living on Earth doing the Will of God for them Heb 10:7,9

He did for them perform all the Faith and Love to God and His Neighbor as required by the Law, Like when Jesus said to one who questioned Him here:

Matt 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

He has fully for His Church fulfilled The First and Great Commandment of the Law In Vs 37-38 and the second like unto it in Vs 39, So True Believers claim the Faith of Christ as theirs, not their own faith, but that Faith Christ exercised towards God while He was here living as the Surety Representative of His People, fulfilling all Righteousness ! 47

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christs death is limited

nope ... according to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


I notice you do not acknowledge your mishandling of Scripture (1 John 3:5 and Revelation 2:88) pointed out to you in Post 2438 and Post 2440.

So do you agree that 1 John 3:5 states that the Lord Jesus Christ was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin?


and do you agree that Revelation 2:11 states that those who overcome are the ones who remain faithful in times of tribulation, poverty, blasphemy of others, even if dishonestly cast into prison as shown in the context of Revelation 2:8-11?

or are you going to continue to reject what the Author of Scripture has written?


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Nobody Christ died for

... you continue to reject the truth of Scripture ...

according to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Matt 3:15

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

I believe this includes the fulfilling of the Righteousness of the Law Rom 8:4

... in conflating what is written in Matthew 3:15 with what is written in Romans 8:4 ... you reveal you do not understand what is written in Matthew 3 nor do you understand what is written in Romans 8.

Here is what you do with Scripture, brightfame52 ...

you take a verse (or verses) from one book ...

and a verse (or verses) from completely different books because a similar word or words are used in the verses ...

you then re-write what the Author of Scripture has laid out in the sections from which you lift verses …

and that is not proper interpretation of Scripture ... that is not rightly dividing the Word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).

Do you read books authored by men and/or women in the same manner you read Scripture? …

or do you read what is written by men and women without manipulating the text? …

thereby holding the writing of men in higher esteem than what is written by the Author of Scripture.

It is truly shameful that you handle the Word of God in this manner.

True Believers claim the Faith of Christ as theirs, not their own faith, but that Faith Christ exercised towards God

True believers believe what is written in Scripture. According to Scripture, there is only one faith:

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

You again re-write Scripture to conform to your erroneous dogma.

Your re-writing of Scripture does not change the truth of Scripture one bit ... your re-writing of Scripture causes you to pile error upon error ...


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[brightfame52]

nope ... according to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


I notice you do not acknowledge your mishandling of Scripture (1 John 3:5 and Revelation 2:88) pointed out to you in Post 2438 and Post 2440.

So do you agree that 1 John 3:5 states that the Lord Jesus Christ was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin?


and do you agree that Revelation 2:11 states that those who overcome are the ones who remain faithful in times of tribulation, poverty, blasphemy of others, even if dishonestly cast into prison as shown in the context of Revelation 2:8-11?

or are you going to continue to reject what the Author of Scripture has written?


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
.

Christs death is limited to His Church. If you teach a Christ that died for all humanity, its another jesus

 

[brightfame52]

... you continue to reject the truth of Scripture ...

according to Scripture ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

Nobody Christ died for shall be lost. Only the reprobate He didnt die for

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christs death is limited to His Church.

the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

If you teach a Christ that died for all humanity, its another Jesus

I believe what the Author of Scripture has written ... just as He has written it ... the Author of Scripture is the One Who tells you the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


you have to manipulate what is written in order to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma ... which is improper interpretation of Scripture. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error ...
.

 

[brightfame52]

the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.




I believe what the Author of Scripture has written ... just as He has written it ... the Author of Scripture is the One Who tells you the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


you have to manipulate what is written in order to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma ... which is improper interpretation of Scripture. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error ...
.

It's the Church

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christs death is limited to His Church.

the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam.

It's the Church

... nope ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world, just as Scripture tells us and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself told His disciples that His church was yet future:

Matthew 16:

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

vs 18 – The words "I will build" are translated from the Greek word oikodomeō which is a verb in the future tense ... meaning He had not yet "built" His church...

... so under your erroneous dogma, the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for folks who lived from the time of Adam to the Day of Pentecost ... when the church referred to by Jesus in Matt 16:18 was established.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

... nope ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world, just as Scripture tells us and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself told His disciples that His church was yet future:

Matthew 16:

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

vs 18 – The words "I will build" are translated from the Greek word oikodomeō which is a verb in the future tense ... meaning He had not yet "built" His church...

... so under your erroneous dogma, the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for folks who lived from the time of Adam to the Day of Pentecost ... when the church referred to by Jesus in Matt 16:18 was established.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Yes Christ only loved and gave Himself for His Church Eph 5:25 ff and the consequences are:

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

[brightfame52]

Brings Fruit unto God !

One of the things Jesus atoning death was purposed to do and does do, it brings fruit unto God. Jesus said on one occasion Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

And Paul writes Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ[His death for you]; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Christ brings forth fruit when those He died for, according to the Will of God bring forth fruit, that was the purpose of His death, without the fruit, it was all in vain.

Christ death accomplished a twofold purpose, that those He died for should be #1 Married to another, because by His death for them they become dead to the Law, in order that they would be married to Christ. How did they become dead to the Law according to the text in Rom 7:4 ?

By the Body of Christ is how, which simply means by His death. Did you know that everyone Christ died for, are born into this world dead to the Law ? Not under its condemning power ! All other men are born condemned by the Law, those Christ did not die for, for instance those in Jn 3:18 cannot and do not believe because they are condemned by the Law, already condemned , their unbelief is evidence of their being already condemned !

But again, not so for those Christ died, because by His death or by the Body of Christ they become dead to the law ! 47

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christ only loved and gave Himself for His Church Eph 5:25 ff

... nope ... you're saying that the Lord Jesus Christ did not love and give Himself for all the folks who lived from the time of Adam to the Day of Pentecost, when "His Church" (referred to by Jesus in Matt 16:18 as yet future) was established:

Matthew 16:

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build [verb, future tense] my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

vs 18 – The words "I will build" are translated from the Greek word oikodomeō which is a verb in the future tense ... meaning He had not yet "built" His church.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jn 12:24

...

And Paul writes Rom 7:4

... conflating what is written in John 12:24 with what is written in Romans 7:4 is total eisegesis on your part.

those He died for

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did you know that everyone Christ died for, are born into this world dead to the Law ?

... more of your made up nonsense in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.

those in Jn 3:18 cannot and do not believe because they are condemned by the Law

John 3:18 does not state that anyone is "condemned by the Law".

John 3:18 states that those who do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are condemned and those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are not condemned:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

the condemned are condemned ... not because they are condemned by the law as you claim ... but because they do not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Greek word nomos (translated into the English word "law") does not even appear in John 3:18 ... nor does the word nomos appear in the whole of John chapter 3.

Nomos is used twice in John chapter 1 and then is not used again in the gospel of John until chapter 7.

Quit making stuff up ... you're way off base with your empty claims ...
.

 

[brightfame52]

@reneweddaybyday

. nope ... you're saying that the Lord Jesus Christ did not love and give Himself for all the folks who lived from the time of Adam to the Day of Pentecost, when "His Church" (referred to by Jesus in Matt 16:18 as yet future) was established:

Yes His Love and Death was exclusivley for His Church Eph 5:25 just as a Mans Love should be exclusively for His Wife, they are One Flesh,

Eph 5:25-32


25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes His Love and Death was exclusivley for His Church

... since, according to you, the Lord Jesus Christ loved and died "exclusivley for His Church" ... and

we know from Matthew 16:18 that the Lord Jesus Christ stated the church was yet future:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build [verb, future tense] my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

then what you are saying is that the Lord Jesus Christ did not love ... nor did He die ... for all those who lived before He established the church which He said was yet future ...

you exclude folks we read about in Hebrews 11 ... and we know Hebrews 11 is not an all-inclusive list of people who were of good report (Heb 11:2).


brightfame52, you have again failed in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

... since, according to you, the Lord Jesus Christ loved and died "exclusivley for His Church" ... and

we know from Matthew 16:18 that the Lord Jesus Christ stated the church was yet future:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build [verb, future tense] my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

then what you are saying is that the Lord Jesus Christ did not love ... nor did He die ... for all those who lived before He established the church which He said was yet future ...

you exclude folks we read about in Hebrews 11 ... and we know Hebrews 11 is not an all-inclusive list of people who were of good report (Heb 11:2).


brightfame52, you have again failed in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Yes His Love and Death was exclusively for His Church Eph 5:25

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes His Love and Death was exclusively for His Church Eph 5:25

... more error due to your adherence to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
.