The gospel of …..

[Pilgrimshope]

Those who have the motive to rebel against God will have no problems with finding ways to interpret God's word as promoting rebellion against him while those who have the motive of promoting obedience to God through faith will have no problems with correctly interpreting God's word as promoting obedience to Him.

Neither Jesus nor John taught people to stop repenting because the Mosaic Law has ended, but rather they taught to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so Jesus was speaking about the Mosaic Law still being taught after John. In addition, in John 16:17, Jesus said that it would be easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least part to disappear from the Mosaic Law, so he was not speaking about something that he thought had already ended. Moreover, in John 16:18, Jesus proceeded to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law.

You mean this group of rebels against God ?

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah God gave a law that dealt with that group then he came and spoke his words to us who believe him that call us his beloved children who’s sins are remitted

 

[Aaron56]

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
‬‬

Amen!

I just want to highlight the verse above.

 

[Magenta]

Those who have the motive to rebel against God will have no problems with finding ways to interpret God's word as promoting rebellion against him while those who have the motive of promoting obedience to God through faith will have no problems with correctly interpreting God's word as promoting obedience to Him.

Neither Jesus nor John taught people to stop repenting because the Mosaic Law has ended, but rather they taught to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so Jesus was speaking about the Mosaic Law still being taught after John. In addition, in John 16:17, Jesus said that it would be easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least part to disappear from the Mosaic Law, so he was not speaking about something that he thought had already ended. Moreover, in John 16:18, Jesus proceeded to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law.

The law remains to condemn those not saved by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as a ransom for many, the any who would believe that His blood paid the price which satisfied God's wrath against and the wages of sin. You who have put yourself back under the law will surely fail and then according to Scripture you are guilty of breaking the whole of the law. Honestly you should stop rebelling against God's plan and find your rest in Jesus Christ as was purposed from before the foundation of the world.

 

[Magenta]

indeed dear wise sister and so what is the answer ?

Deuteronomy 18:20

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Deuteronomy 18:20

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen!

I just want to highlight the verse above.

Amen there’s a promise and fulfillment

 

[Soyeong]

The Law God gave to Moses was for the Jewish Nation, not for the Christian Church today.

God gave the law to Israel for the purpose of equipping them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel (see my last post). Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the way to be a Christian is not by refusing to follow what Christ taught.

The 1st Covenant was surely the Law.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so those who want nothing to do with the Mosaic Law want nothing to do with the New Covenant.

However the Law was to make the Jews aware of their sinfulness, and not intended for eternal salvation.

It is not just Jews who need to repent from doing what God has revealed to be sin, but Gentles too, otherwise there would be no point in spreading the Gospel to the nations. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, so believe in God by obeying the Mosaic Law is the only way of eternal salvation, which is why Jesus said that the way to do inherit eternal life is by obeying it (Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17).

The New Covenant, Grace, is intended to bring salvation to all who believe! Jesus "fulfilled" the Law of the 1st Covenant, and established the Law of the New Covenant, the Law of Faith!

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be under grace, the Mosaic Law is the Law of Faith, and this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. “To fulfill the law” means “to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, so Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law by spend his ministry teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.

The Apostle Paul declared this himself.
Romans, Chapter 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin...
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Those who chose to remain under the Law of the 1st Covenant, will be judged by that Law, and, God have mercy on them, for none can be saved by that Law; for none can keep "all of the Law!"

In Romans 3:31, Paul said that our faith upholds God’s law, yet your faith does not. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, having the experience of living in obedience to it through faith in Christ is nevertheless intrinsically part what the gift of salvation is, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey the Mosaic Law.

 

[Magenta]

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ezekiel 18:4 + 32

 

[Magenta]

“blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:13-14

 

[Magenta]

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,” Colossians‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Colossians 2:16-17

 

[Soyeong]

“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Colossians 2:16-17

God's law was given for our good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), it is not against us, but rather what is a witness against us is our transgressions of God's law. In other words, there is a difference between these two statements:

1.) You shall not commit murder.

2.) This person has been charged with committing murder.

The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was a witness against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. For example, in Matthew 27:37, they nailed the charge that was against Jesus to his cross that announced that he was being executed because he was the King of the Jews. This fits perfectly with the concept of the list of our sins being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place, but has nothing to do with ending any laws. Jesus did not give himself to make us free to do the things that God revealed to be sin through His law, but rather Titus 2:14 says that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, that verse leaves room for two scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews for not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any. man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans for keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for keeping them.

In Colossians 2:16-23, it describes the people who were judging the Colossians are promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario is the case, which makes it especially ironic when people try to use these verses to promote rebellion against God.

 

[Soyeong]

That's some bull.

Do you then deny the truth of Genesis 18:19 and the other verses that I quoted?

You do not understand covenants or the law.

The promises to Abraham was secured by God alone.

"For when God made promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no greater, He swore by himself, saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise."

Abraham was a 3rd party beneficiary of the covenant between God and God. Abraham had no responsibility to uphold the covenant. He only had to believe what God told him.

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness."

This covenant, between God and God, required belief to enter into it. BY THAT, righteousness is imparted. This is the substance of the promises secured by God's word to God identical to the righteousness of a son following a father's council.

The way that God blessed Abraham by graciously teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom in advance to Him and he believed the promise by spreading it to his children and those of his household.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was counted as righteou (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were expressing his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

 

[Soyeong]

No kidding! Jesus told the Jews that Moses allowed certain things due to the hardness of their hearts; Jesus said you have heard that it was written, and followed up by saying unto them something different than what was written. So Soyeong is a false teacher, who even says the 613 mitzvot are written on our hearts, which is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard.

In Matthew 4, Jesus consistently proceeded a quote from what was written by saying "it is written...", but it Matthew 5, he consistently proceeded a quote from what they people had heard being said by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so his emphasis on the different form of communication is important. Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to what was written, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey what was written as it was originally intended. For example:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While what was written does instruct us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it does not instruct us to hate our enemy, so that is what Jesus was correcting. Rather, loving our enemy is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so I am not the one who is a false teacher. In Jeremiah 31:33, it directly states that God will put the Mosaic Law in our minds and write it on our hearts, so I don't see how you can say that that is one of the most ridiculous things that you have ever heard. Those who want nothing to do with obeying the Mosaic Law want nothing to do with the New Covenant.

There is a great deal of blindness involved, to be sure, since they have put themselves under the law and fallen from grace/been severed from Christ. Jesus brought the temple system and the relevance of Judaism to an end, but some such as S think that we should practice a dead thing, and that we should walk as Jesus did, as if they can and do, showing us how delusional they really are, since I doubt very much that they calm violent storms, heal leapers, give sight to the blind, restore hearing and speech to the deaf and mute, turn water to wine, raise the dead, etc, etc. They pretend to follow Jesus while ignoring His teaching about putting new wine into an old wine skin. They ignore that Jesus said not to sew a new patch onto old cloth. They lack understanding and teach their falseness instead of Truth.

You want do call me blind, but I'm not the one who is interpreting God's word as speaking against obeying God and the blind never connects obedience to God with blindness, but just the opposite. God is sovereign, so we are all under His law and are obligated to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin regardless of whether or not we consider ourselves to be under it. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is the way to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. Christ set a sinless example for how to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so it is absurd to think that the way to be severed from Christ is by following him. Judaism is the religion based on following God's word and Jesus did not put God's word to an end, but rather he is God's word made flesh. In 1 Peter 2:21-22, we are told to follow Christ's example, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ, which is not about performing miracles, but about walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Jesus gave the parable about the wineskins to answer the question of why his disciples were not fasting, which has nothing to do with the point that you are trying to use his parable to make, so you are the one who is ignoring his teachings. In Palms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, but you are opposed to truth.

 

[Soyeong]

You mean this group of rebels against God ?

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

yeah God gave a law that dealt with that group then he came and spoke his words to us who believe him that call us his beloved children who’s sins are remitted

Amen!

I just want to highlight the verse above.

In 1 Timothy 1:8, it says that God's law is good if it used properly, so verses 9-10 should not be absurd as saying that it is not good for us to obey God's law. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, and in 1 John 3:7, everyone who does what is righteous is righteous even as they are righteous. For someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of that trait, such as for someone to be courageous means that they are a doer of courageous works and for God to be righteous means that He is a doer of righteous works, so it is contradictory for someone to be righteous without being a doer of righteous works. If someone tries to use 1 Timothy 1:9-10 to justify their freedom to be doers of unrighteous works by saying that the law is only for the unrighteous, then they thereby become someone that the law is for. Instructions for how to be doers of righteous works as not needed to teach those who are doers of righteous works how to do them, but rather it is the doers of unrighteous works who need to be taught how to be doers of righteous works.

So that is another good example of people taking verses that they think they can use to promote rebellion against God and running with it without being bothered by the fact that their interpretation is absurd.

 

[Inquisitor]

God's law was given for our good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), it is not against us, but rather what is a witness against us is our transgressions of God's law. In other words, there is a difference between these two statements:

1.) You shall not commit murder.

2.) This person has been charged with committing murder.

The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was a witness against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. For example, in Matthew 27:37, they nailed the charge that was against Jesus to his cross that announced that he was being executed because he was the King of the Jews. This fits perfectly with the concept of the list of our sins being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place, but has nothing to do with ending any laws. Jesus did not give himself to make us free to do the things that God revealed to be sin through His law, but rather Titus 2:14 says that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, that verse leaves room for two scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews for not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any. man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans for keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for keeping them.

In Colossians 2:16-23, it describes the people who were judging the Colossians are promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario is the case, which makes it especially ironic when people try to use these verses to promote rebellion against God.

Here is your quotation.

1.) You shall not commit murder.

Jesus said that the literal meaning was insufficient to understand the law.

Jesus expanded that law.

Matthew 5:21-22
You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not murder,’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be answerable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be answerable to the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Jesus is actually talking about the deeds of the flesh here, not the literal law.

 

[Soyeong]

The law remains to condemn those not saved by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as a ransom for many, the any who would believe that His blood paid the price which satisfied God's wrath against and the wages of sin. You who have put yourself back under the law will surely fail and then according to Scripture you are guilty of breaking the whole of the law. Honestly you should stop rebelling against God's plan and find your rest in Jesus Christ as was purposed from before the foundation of the world.

God's law remains to condemn only those who refuse to submit to it through faith. In Romans 8:1, there is therefor now no condemnation for those who are in Christ, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so verses that speak about those who are in Christ are only speaking about those who are walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so it is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation while also thinking that they aren't obligated to obey the Mosaic Law. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself t redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20) while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished.

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by committing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not discouraging them from trying to keep God's law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to obey it more consistently. If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and to return to obedience through faith.

The way tor rebel against God is by not obeying what He has commanded, but by refusing to obey what He has commanded. Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to refuse to learn from his example. Furthermore, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, so that is the way to find our rest on Christ, but you will not walk in it.

 

[Soyeong]

Here is your quotation.

1.) You shall not commit murder.

Jesus said that the literal meaning was insufficient to understand the law.

Jesus expanded that law.

Matthew 5:21-22
You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not murder,’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be answerable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be answerable to the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Jesus is actually talking about the deeds of the flesh here, not the literal law.

Please read post#33 in regard to Matthew 5:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-gospel-of-….214274/page-2#post-5253001

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract form the law, so Jesus did not make changes to is, but rather he was fulfilling the law correcting what the people had heard being taught and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. We are instructed not to hate our brother in Leviticus 19:17, so Jesus was not teaching anything brand new. In Galatians 5:19, everything listed as deeds of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God's law was given for our good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), it is not against us, but rather what is a witness against us is our transgressions of God's law. In other words, there is a difference between these two statements:

1.) You shall not commit murder.

2.) This person has been charged with committing murder.

The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was a witness against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. For example, in Matthew 27:37, they nailed the charge that was against Jesus to his cross that announced that he was being executed because he was the King of the Jews. This fits perfectly with the concept of the list of our sins being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place, but has nothing to do with ending any laws. Jesus did not give himself to make us free to do the things that God revealed to be sin through His law, but rather Titus 2:14 says that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, that verse leaves room for two scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews for not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any. man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans for keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for keeping them.

In Colossians 2:16-23, it describes the people who were judging the Colossians are promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario is the case, which makes it especially ironic when people try to use these verses to promote rebellion against God.

definitely wearing the vail

 

[Soyeong]

definitely wearing the vail

That does not show how what I said was wrong and I'm not the one who thinks that it makes sense to interpret God's word as promoting rebellion against Him. The veil was preventing people from seeing that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and that veil is preventing you from seeing the same thing.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to what was written, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey what was written as it was originally intended.

Nobody can correctly obey the 613 mitzvot. The intention of the law was to lead us to Christ.