Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

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JohnDB

JohnDB

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#61
Jan 16, 2021
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#61
ALL unholy and corruption is instantly destroyed when fully in God's presence.

When I get to Heaven all of my sinful desires are stripped from me....what's left is what gets to stay in heaven.

So...
In an unrepentant person who has considered worshipping God is worthless and not worth their time so they know nothing good....what is going to be left of them when they get into God's presence without ANY atonement to protect them from God's holiness?

Justice is love as well as Goodness and holiness/purity.

Blessed is the holy/pure of heart for they shall see God.

Pure of heart is single mindedness for God. Not a schlub who has neither respect or fear of God.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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CS1 said:
God remembers them no more. The Love of God made away for all not to go to hell. Those who reject salvation so greatly go to a place that was not prepared for man.
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“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Dino246

Dino246

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PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say that?
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Right here:

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
 
K

Karlon

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Mar 8, 2023
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#65
John 9:31 correlates to this.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

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#66
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#66
PaulThomson said:
You are assuming that hate is an absence of agape love. What if the absence of agape love is actually indifference?
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Not really.
I'm just summarizing the true attributes of God so that people can understand what He is like.

Pop culture Christianity decided to make "hate" out to be a bad word. Reprobates quote Gandhi on a bumper sticker, so Christians quote this false prophet's teachings instead of God's true Word.
They say things like "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and apply that to individuals that God really hates. Or they'll pull out of their collection of fake verses, "Hate is not a family value."

I don't go around with hatred in my heart, but I don't want to make the mistake of making God angry with me because I decided that I should befriend His enemies.
I hate the anti-christs.
I hate the abortionists and those who inject the innocent with lethal injections like the CV shots.
I hate the reprobates, those who God has rejected.

"Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. "
Romans 12:9

See that it would be a fake love if I were to agree with the "love is love " homos. They don't get to rewrite the Bible with their phony virtues. They disobey God to the Nth degree. Romans 1. ..We are to abhor that evil.

15"All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."
Hosea 9
This entire book described the details of why God hated them.
The book of Revelation describes what God's hatred will be like in the future.

God loves everyone who came into the world enough to send His only begotten Son to suffer and die for every one of their sins. Those who rejected Him are not recipients of His live, but of His wrath forever.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
John 3

This is why I post This Gospel
so often in this forum.
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

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Jul 5, 2023
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#67
PaulThomson said:
The context of this quote is Malachi. Is it referring to the man Esau who eventually repented and accepted Jacob's preeminence, or the nation which descended from Esau, who insisted on trying to wipe out the nation descended from Jacob until God wiped destroyed them from being a nation in their own homeland.
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Good try.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#68
Dec 18, 2021
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#68
NightTwister said:
So, you didn't actually want anyone to show you.
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Did you read the quote. Or just what was said?

The quote is from the last book in the NT

It is not about two kids. it is about 2 nations.

Making it about 2 kids is to make it totally out of context.
 
P

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Dino246 said:
Right here:

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
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the word translated as everlasting is aiOniov, an adjective formed from aiOn meaning "an age". It means age-long, not everlasting. Do a word search. . According to Ephesians 2:7 there are coming ages,. so age-long may not mean forever in 2 Thess. 1:9.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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#71
Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

Kind of difficult since a soul in Hell has had their human body physically die and no longer has a chance to repent.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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PaulThomson said:
the word translated as everlasting is aiOniov, an adjective formed from aiOn meaning "an age". It means age-long, not everlasting. Do a word search. . According to Ephesians 2:7 there are coming ages,. so age-long may not mean forever in 2 Thess. 1:9.
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That smacks of universalism, which is a heresy.
 
Blade

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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MerSee said:
Does God Love unrepentant sinners who are in hell?

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment.
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If you look at our Justice system people can be locked up then face a judge then set free or put in prison. From what I read no one is lost because they didn't repent forgot to repent. Its is your name written in His book like He told the 12 "don't rejoice you have power over demons (demons are subject unto you) but that your names are written in heaven"

2nd Peter 2 4 well the way you quoted it I can't find it written like that..ORG text. Put in chains not infernal ropes. In the deepest abyss so forth waiting judgment. Not "unto torments". Yeah.. seems with GOD frist comes the judgement not this we go to (forgive me Father) to be sent to hell to be tormented by demons.. the ones it was made for.. ok. To then be pulled out judged sent back? Anyway getting lost lol.

So 2nd peter has nothing to do with the question you asked. So not to dive in to this based on just what you said.. no one can answer. So many speculations here. Was it say someone like Peter James and John that fully 100% from their heart walked away? I might say no. Now is it someone today .. whos Jesus is God looking at? Well was the Mormon? Catholic, JW on and on. If I don't repent today or all next week and die.. I will be with the Father. Its not sin its is my name as He told the 12 "don't rejoice demons are subject unto you but that your names are written in heaven". Now let's not pretend back in Christs day it was far easier to follow Christ not sin like it is today :)
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Dino246 said:
That smacks of universalism, which is a heresy.
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No. It's simply honestly admitting the limits of what the scripture cited actually says without reading an opinion into the text.

You should ask yourself why it is that, now that you believe you are elect and saved by grace through faith, you so resent other fallen beings receiving the same grace and mercy that you would prefer to read their eternal damnation into a text rather than admit the text leaves them some possibility of finding mercy from God.
 
P

PaulThomson

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

Kind of difficult since a soul in Hell has had their human body physically die and no longer has a chance to repent.
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Do you believe that a being doesn't need a physical body to suffer torment, but they need a physical body to repent? How does that make sense of scripture?
 
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tylerbones1313

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May 1, 2022
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PaulThomson said:
No. It's simply honestly admitting the limits of what the scripture cited actually says without reading an opinion into the text.

You should ask yourself why it is that, now that you believe you are elect and saved by grace through faith, you so resent other fallen beings receiving the same grace and mercy that you would prefer to read their eternal damnation into a text rather than admit the text leaves them some possibility of finding mercy from God.
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2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Here is an explanation of the Scripture.

He will punish those who do not know God: "Do not know God" doesn't imply mere ignorance but a willful rejection of God's revelation of Himself in creation and conscience. Also, it highlights a state of rebellion and active opposition to God.

and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus: This emphasizes the importance of accepting the message of salvation offered through Jesus Christ. This obedience involves faith, repentance, and surrender of one's life to His Lordship.

They will be punished with everlasting destruction: "Everlasting destruction" refers to eternal separation from God and the experience of His wrath. This destruction is a consequence of sin and rejection of God's offer of salvation.

and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might: It reiterates the idea of eternal separation from God, who is the source of all goodness, joy, and love. It emphasizes the loss of any hope for future restoration or reconciliation with God.

There are several reasons for these verses:

Seriousness of Sin: Highlights the severe consequences of sin and rejecting God's love and salvation.

Urgency of the Gospel: Emphasizes the urgency of sharing the gospel message, as eternal destiny hangs on the response.

God's Justice: Affirms God's justice and His unwavering commitment to righteousness. He won't ignore those who oppose Him and refuse His grace.

Hope of Salvation: Implicitly offers hope by highlighting that the path of salvation through faith in Jesus is still available for all.

  • Balanced View: This passage, while sobering, should be understood within the broader context of God's love, mercy, and desire that all would be saved (2 Peter 3:9).
  • Role of Human Choice: It emphasizes that people have a choice in their eternal destiny. God grants free will, and this passage highlights the consequences of rejecting His offer of grace.
 
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tylerbones1313

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May 1, 2022
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#78
PaulThomson said:
Do you believe that a being doesn't need a physical body to suffer torment, but they need a physical body to repent? How does that make sense of scripture?
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The notion that unrepentant sinners in hell can still be saved directly contradicts numerous biblical teachings about the nature of salvation, judgment, and the afterlife. Here's why this statement is absurd according to the Bible:

  1. Salvation Requires Repentance and Faith:
  • The Bible consistently emphasizes that salvation is ONLY possible through repentance (turning away from sin) and faith in Jesus Christ. Examples:
    • Acts 3:19: "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out..."
    • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  • Unrepentant sinners, by definition, reject the very foundation of salvation.
  1. Death Seals One's Destiny:
  • The Bible paints a clear picture that death solidifies a person's eternal state. This is seen in:
    • Hebrews 9:27: "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..."
    • The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31): This vividly illustrates the unchangeable nature of the afterlife; there's no second chance after death.
  1. Hell as a Place of Eternal Separation:
  • The Bible describes hell as a place of eternal torment, conscious suffering, and separation from God. Examples:
    • Revelation 20:10: "...And the devil... was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur... and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"
    • Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"
  1. God's Justice and Finality of Judgment:
  • The Bible depicts God as a just judge who will render a final and irreversible verdict.
    • Revelation 20:11-15: Describes the Great White Throne judgment where everyone is judged based on their deeds.
    • 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9: Affirms God's punishment for those who reject Him.
  • Allowing unrepentant sinners to be saved from hell undermines God's justice and the seriousness of sin.
In Conclusion:

The idea of salvation for unrepentant sinners in hell contradicts the Bible's central teachings about repentance, faith, the finality of death, the nature of hell, and God's justice. It's a false hope that undermines the urgency of the gospel message and the need for people to turn to God in this life while there's still a chance for salvation.

Let me know if you have further questions about the biblical concepts of salvation, judgment, and the afterlife.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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#79
PaulThomson said:
No. It's simply honestly admitting the limits of what the scripture cited actually says without reading an opinion into the text.

You should ask yourself why it is that, now that you believe you are elect and saved by grace through faith, you so resent other fallen beings receiving the same grace and mercy that you would prefer to read their eternal damnation into a text rather than admit the text leaves them some possibility of finding mercy from God.
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You assume too much about me, and ignore too much about Scripture.

"Today is the day of salvation."
"It is appointed unto man to die once, and then the judgment."
"Between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."

These statements from Scripture have no place in your view.

If there is not an eternal distinction between those who have believed in Christ in this life, and those who have not, then He died for nothing. If people can taste eternity without Him and then choose where to spend it, then faith is meaningless.

I don't resent other fallen humans finding mercy, which is why I tell them about the mercy available now to them, and I tell them that mercy will not be available forever. That is far more merciful than telling them they might find mercy after death, before they discover how terribly and unchangeably wrong that is.

The next time you discover a nuance of meaning in a word of Scripture, I suggest you think broadly and deeply about its implications before drawing conclusions.
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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PaulThomson said:
the word translated as everlasting is aiOniov, an adjective formed from aiOn meaning "an age". It means age-long, not everlasting. Do a word search. . According to Ephesians 2:7 there are coming ages,. so age-long may not mean forever in 2 Thess. 1:9.
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Site the source from where you're getting this from. I don't trust anything you say, so I looked it up myself:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

2 Thessalonians 1:9 οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ,

This is the break-down:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

According to this break-down, αἰώνιον means eternal, not just for a certain period of time like you're claiming.


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