Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

[NightTwister]

Where is your Scriptural basis for your answer. Show me in the Word of God where God hates sinners (human race) not where it says God hates Sin (acts of disobedience), just the acts of man not man himself.

As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Rom 9:13

 

[tylerbones1313]

As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Rom 9:13

Understanding how "hate" is used in the Bible requires careful consideration of context and the original languages. Here's a breakdown of the different meanings of "hate" as it relates to God:

1. Strong Dislike for Sin and Evil:

• Proverbs 6:16-19: Lists actions and attitudes God detests, like "hands that shed innocent blood" and "a heart that devises wicked schemes". This highlights His opposition to sin and its destructive consequences.
• Psalm 5:5: "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." This verse emphasizes God's holiness and His intolerance of anything contrary to His character.

1. Relative Preference:

• Genesis 29:31: "And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb..." Here, "hated" means "loved less" in comparison to her sister, Rachel.
• Luke 14:26: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." This strong language illustrates that love for Jesus must be supreme.

1. Judgment and Consequence for Sin:

• Romans 9:13: "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." This refers to God's sovereign choice to bless Jacob's lineage, not condemnation of Esau as an individual. It highlights God's justice and the consequences of persistent rebellion.

Important Considerations:

• God's love and hate are not like human emotions. They stem from His perfect character.
• God's "hate" is primarily directed towards sin, not individuals. Even in judgment, there's an aspect of mercy and a desire for repentance.
• Passages about God's hatred should be understood in the broader context of His love, forgiveness, and desire for all to be saved.

 

[NightTwister]

Understanding how "hate" is used in the Bible requires careful consideration of context and the original languages. Here's a breakdown of the different meanings of "hate" as it relates to God:

1. Strong Dislike for Sin and Evil:

• Proverbs 6:16-19: Lists actions and attitudes God detests, like "hands that shed innocent blood" and "a heart that devises wicked schemes". This highlights His opposition to sin and its destructive consequences.
• Psalm 5:5: "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." This verse emphasizes God's holiness and His intolerance of anything contrary to His character.

1. Relative Preference:

• Genesis 29:31: "And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb..." Here, "hated" means "loved less" in comparison to her sister, Rachel.
• Luke 14:26: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." This strong language illustrates that love for Jesus must be supreme.

1. Judgment and Consequence for Sin:

• Romans 9:13: "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." This refers to God's sovereign choice to bless Jacob's lineage, not condemnation of Esau as an individual. It highlights God's justice and the consequences of persistent rebellion.

Important Considerations:

• God's love and hate are not like human emotions. They stem from His perfect character.
• God's "hate" is primarily directed towards sin, not individuals. Even in judgment, there's an aspect of mercy and a desire for repentance.
• Passages about God's hatred should be understood in the broader context of His love, forgiveness, and desire for all to be saved.

So, you didn't actually want anyone to show you.

 

[tylerbones1313]

As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Rom 9:13

It clearly says God hated Esau and you can't argue with the English. I was simply showing the God's hate is not like the human emotional Hate we think about when our finite minds hear it. Thank you for showing me this Scripture, because other place I found talk about His hate toward sin not the sinner. I've forgotten about the verse. Again thanks for bringing it back to my memory.

Explanation of Romans 9:13, where Paul quotes from Malachi 1:2-3:

The Meaning of "Hate"

• It doesn't refer to emotional hatred as humans understand it.
• In this context, "hate" means "loved less" or "chose not to bless" compared to Jacob.
• God's love and hate are rooted in His perfect nature and His sovereign choices.

The Context of Election

• Paul is addressing the question of God's sovereignty in choosing Israel throughout history.
• His primary point is that God's faithfulness isn't tied to ethnicity. He has the right to choose whom to bless for His purposes.
• This verse illustrates God's sovereign choice, even before Jacob and Esau were born (Romans 9:11), to establish His lineage through Jacob, not through Esau.

Important Considerations:

• This doesn't mean Esau was doomed to damnation. It focuses on God's choice for His lineage, not individual salvation.
• God's "hatred" stems from His perfect justice and opposition to any influence that might corrupt Israel's special role in His plan.
• This shouldn't be interpreted as God being arbitrary or actively malicious towards Esau.

Theological Implications

This verse raises complex questions about:

• God's Sovereignty: God has the ultimate right to choose who fulfills His purposes.
• Free Will: How does God's sovereignty interact with human choices?
• Predestination: Does God predetermine some for salvation and others for damnation?

 

[JohnDB]

So, you didn't actually want anyone to show you.

Yeah...
I don't think he believes anyone has anything to teach him...ever. He is completely self-sufficient and thinks we need him.

 

[PaulThomson]

Does God Love unrepentant sinners who are in hell?

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment.

Yes. God IS love/agape. The opposite of agape is not hate. The opposite of agape is indifference. His hot anger against sinners is because He values them and hates to see them devaluing themselves and others.

 

[PaulThomson]

W

Jesus told the Pharisees that if they did not accept Him then they would die in their sins.

The Bible says for it is appointed unto people once to die, and then the judgment.

In the flesh dwells no good thing.

Sin separates us from God.

When a person dies judgment is already set.

However a person dies whether with sin on their record, or sin not on their record, they will stay in the condition for eternity.

That is because there is no place to put off the sin if they die with sin on their record.

Their entire being is corrupted with no place to put off the sin for they are not in the flesh.

The angels when they rebelled cannot be saved for they are one component and have no where to put off the sin, so their entire being was corrupted and they could not get rid of the sin.

But a person is flesh and soul which all sin resides in the flesh, and if they do not have sin on their record they can put off the flesh, and their soul is preserved.

But a person that dies in their sins have that on their record in the after life but they are not in the flesh so they have nowhere to transfer the sin.

It is because we are in the flesh that we can be saved, but the angels are only one being so they cannot be saved after they sin.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

God did not spare the angels, but delivered then into chains of darkness, not delivered them to be saved, and they are reserved unto judgment but that judgment will be separation from God for they are cannot reverse the sin they done, and cannot get rid of the sin they done.

People can be saved because they are in the flesh, and however they die whether sin on their record, or no sin on their record they stay that way for all eternity, and if sin on their record they cannot get rid of the sin because they are not in the flesh, so they have nowhere to transfer the sin so their entire being is corrupted with no reversal.

Angels cannot be saved for they are one being so if they sin they cannot get rid of the sin so their entire being is corrupted with no reversal.

If a person dies with sin on their record then they become like the angels that sinned that they cannot reverse it for they are one being because they are not in the flesh so their entire being is corrupted.

Wow! You know so much about spiritual beings and God's nature that isn't said in the bible. How did you come upon such knowledge?

 

[PaulThomson]

W

Jesus told the Pharisees that if they did not accept Him then they would die in their sins.

The Bible says for it is appointed unto people once to die, and then the judgment.

In the flesh dwells no good thing.

Sin separates us from God.

When a person dies judgment is already set.

However a person dies whether with sin on their record, or sin not on their record, they will stay in the condition for eternity.

That is because there is no place to put off the sin if they die with sin on their record.

Their entire being is corrupted with no place to put off the sin for they are not in the flesh.

The angels when they rebelled cannot be saved for they are one component and have no where to put off the sin, so their entire being was corrupted and they could not get rid of the sin.

But a person is flesh and soul which all sin resides in the flesh, and if they do not have sin on their record they can put off the flesh, and their soul is preserved.

But a person that dies in their sins have that on their record in the after life but they are not in the flesh so they have nowhere to transfer the sin.

It is because we are in the flesh that we can be saved, but the angels are only one being so they cannot be saved after they sin.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

God did not spare the angels, but delivered then into chains of darkness, not delivered them to be saved, and they are reserved unto judgment but that judgment will be separation from God for they are cannot reverse the sin they done, and cannot get rid of the sin they done.

People can be saved because they are in the flesh, and however they die whether sin on their record, or no sin on their record they stay that way for all eternity, and if sin on their record they cannot get rid of the sin because they are not in the flesh, so they have nowhere to transfer the sin so their entire being is corrupted with no reversal.

Angels cannot be saved for they are one being so if they sin they cannot get rid of the sin so their entire being is corrupted with no reversal.

If a person dies with sin on their record then they become like the angels that sinned that they cannot reverse it for they are one being because they are not in the flesh so their entire being is corrupted.

Wow! Montana123. You know so much about spiritual beings and God's nature that isn't said in the bible. How did you come upon such knowledge?

 

[PaulThomson]

Angels cannot receive Grace

Where does scripture say that, Omegatime?

 

[PaulThomson]

Correct, As In "today , while we are alive, on earth":

"We then, as workers together with Him, beseech you also that ye receive ​

not The Grace of God in vain. ( For He saith, I have heard thee in a time​

accepted, and in The Day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold,​

[ when? ]​

Now Is The Accepted time; behold, Now Is The Day of salvation. )"​

(2Co 6:1-2)​

​

Thus, it Cannot "be later when in hell", Correct?:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this The Judgment"​

(Heb 9:27)​

​

Amen.

Are there no today's in hell? Is there no present in hell? Why does Why does "Now is the acceotable time only apply to "while we are alive on earth?

 

[PaulThomson]

Are you intentionally asking two distinct questions? Your thread title is one question, and your question here is quite different.

To the thread title: no.

To the question above: irrelevant. It really doesn't matter whether God loves them or not; their judgment is final and will never change.

Where does scripture say that?

 

[PaulThomson]

NO, THEY CAN NOT BE SAVED! hell is final & heaven is final.

Where does scripture say that?

 

[PaulThomson]

When probation closes it is finished.

Probation closes when we die or when Jesus stops pleading His blood for us.

Jesus will stop being our high priest just before He comes as king.

Rev 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Odd, because He has an everlasting priesthood Heb. 7:24 and his sacrifice is a perpetual sacrifice Heb. 10;12. So, why would an everlasting priesthood and a perpetual sacrifice end?

 

[PaulThomson]

The OP question....

If they are in Hell they don't get out and are getting what they worked for their entire lives.
Doesn't seem like love to me....they wished to be unloved by God and eventually got their way. What's so hard to prove?

Doesn't require any scripture. It's "prima facia" evidence.

Just because they will regret the consequences of their choices doesn't change them or allow them to make a different choice.

Are you the arbiter of what real love is? or is God the one who knows what love is?

 

[PaulThomson]

i think repentance is about the living not sure about things after death and if they’ll repent or not that’s above my pay grade but the message is here for the living now to hear and be saved

Excellent reply, Pilgrimshope.

 

[PaulThomson]

God is Love and He so loved the world.
What I said in no way denies any or all attributes of the Lord. That said, what would deny God's other attributes would be to say that He loves those He says that He hates.
Does God not hate some people?
Isn't He angry with the wicked every day?

You are assuming that hate is an absence of agape love. What if the absence of agape love is actually indifference?

 

[PaulThomson]

Did he love the Cities, as He rained fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah?
Genesis 19

Yes. He was not indifferent to their condition or their future. Agape love is a love that appreciates the intrinsic value of the person or thing loved. Hate and anger are what love feels when it sees what is intrinsically valuable being devalued and desecrated. The opposite of love is lukewarmness, or indifference.

 

[PaulThomson]

Unrepentant and in Hell....

And somehow they can be redeemed?
They get yet another chance? (Not counting the millions of chances they had on Earth)

At what point does prima fascia evidence not become prima fascia? (As plain as the nose on your face)

Where God's mercy and grace might seem limitless and timeless....even He has a cut off point. And a person's residence in Hell would be a good clue to the end of it.

If Lazarus couldn't bring a finger of water or get a message to his brothers....then I'd say that you can't get there from there....there are no roads.

Ps. 51:17. The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise."

What if a soul in hell becomes a broken and contrite spirit?

 

[PaulThomson]

As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Rom 9:13

The context of this quote is Malachi. Is it referring to the man Esau who eventually repented and accepted Jacob's preeminence, or the nation which descended from Esau, who insisted on trying to wipe out the nation descended from Jacob until God wiped destroyed them from being a nation in their own homeland.

 

[CS1]

Does God Love unrepentant sinners who are in hell?

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment.

God remembers them no more. The Love of God made away for all not to go to hell. Those who reject salvation so greatly go to a place that was not prepared for man.