the Sabbath

[Johann]

Just find me one thus saith the Lord that we don't need to keep His holy Sabbath day. All the ones in scripture He tells us to keep and not profane.

Firstly, the New Testament teaches that Christians are freed from the old covenant, including its rituals and ceremonies like the Sabbath (Romans 6:14; Galatians 4:1–26). Secondly, the book of Acts shows that the earliest Christians met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7), indicating that the Sabbath was not a primary concern for them. Thirdly, the epistles of Paul indicate that individuals should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest (1 Corinthians 7:17–24). Fourthly, the letter to the Colossians suggests that the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ and is no longer necessary for Christians (Colossians 2:16–17). Finally, the historical development of the Christian Church indicates that the Sabbath was replaced by the first day of the week, known as the Lord's Day or Resurrection Day (Revelation 1:10 ).
While the Old Testament commands the observance of the Sabbath, the New Testament makes clear that Christians are not bound to keep the Sabbath as a legal requirement. Rather, they are encouraged to live lives of freedom and love, following the example of Christ and the teaching of the apostles-


Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Not keeping the Sabbath is exactly what the Pharisees wrongly accused Jesus and His followers of doing.

Matthew 12:1-8, "At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on a Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pick heads of wheat and eat them. But when the Pharisees saw this they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is against the law to do on the Sabbath.” He said to them, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry— how he entered the house of God and ate the sacred bread, which was against the law for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the law that the priests in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are not guilty? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what this means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

You should read your Bible more carefully.

True, that's what the Pharisees accused Him of, but He was faithful and kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments. He just didn't keep the sabbath of the Pharisees, which was different than the Sabbath in the 4th commandment as they added many rules to God's Sabbath and we have clear instructions not to add or subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2

 

[jamessb]

There's only one Truth in scripture and all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

Close, but...

John 14:6, "Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

If you are a Christian you should understand this fundamental truth: Jesus' sacrifice fulfilled ALL the OT law's requirements. We now have a New Covenant, purchased with His blood.

 

[Johann]

True, that's what the Pharisees accused Him of, but He was faithful and kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments. He just didn't keep the sabbath of the Pharisees, which was different than the Sabbath in the 4th commandment as they added many rules to God's Sabbath and we have clear instructions not to add or subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2

Isn't this good news?


Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Firstly, the New Testament teaches that Christians are freed from the old covenant, including its rituals and ceremonies like the Sabbath (Romans 6:14; Galatians 4:1–26). Secondly, the book of Acts shows that the earliest Christians met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7), indicating that the Sabbath was not a primary concern for them. Thirdly, the epistles of Paul indicate that individuals should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest (1 Corinthians 7:17–24). Fourthly, the letter to the Colossians suggests that the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ and is no longer necessary for Christians (Colossians 2:16–17). Finally, the historical development of the Christian Church indicates that the Sabbath was replaced by the first day of the week, known as the Lord's Day or Resurrection Day (Revelation 1:10 ).
While the Old Testament commands the observance of the Sabbath, the New Testament makes clear that Christians are not bound to keep the Sabbath as a legal requirement. Rather, they are encouraged to live lives of freedom and love, following the example of Christ and the teaching of the apostles-


Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The apostles met every day to break bread, does not make every day a new day or worship or the new Sabbath. Rev 1:10 does not say the first day, God already claimed His holy day in His own Words. Isa 58:13 Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:10-11 Isa 66:23

I already went through most of these scriptures, there is no scripture that the Sabbath was abrogated or changed by God in scripture. My faith is in Him and His every Word.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Isn't this good news?


Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes, it sure is and sin, is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4, the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7, breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[jamessb]

The commandments reflects God's character. His Truth Psa 119:151, His Righteousness Psa 119:172, which never changes. We are to become like God, like His character, in His likeness.

If you live by trying to rely on single verses from the Old Testament, you are in serious trouble. Jesus died so that we could have a New Covenant; we are no longer slaves to the Old Covenant.

If you don't believe that, I hope you don't get arrested for sacrificing cattle and sheep as payment for your sins.

 

[Inquisitor]

I responded on your topic!

There is no need to look at outside sources. Jesus was so plain- not one dot or tittle can pass from His law as no one is above God- do not break the least of these commandments Mark 5:18--30. If we just believe His teachings He will lead us on that narrow path.

You stated, "not one dot or tittle can pass from His law".

I asked ChatGPT the following question, relating to "not one dot or tittle can pass from His law".

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! What is the meaning of this verse?


ChatGPT

The verse you provided is from the Gospel of Matthew, specifically Matthew 5:17-18 (ESV), where Jesus is speaking during the Sermon on the Mount. Let's break down the meaning of these verses:

Matthew 5:17-18 (ESV):

"17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."​

Meaning:

1. Not to Abolish, but to Fulfill: Jesus begins by stating that His purpose is not to abolish the Law (referring to the Mosaic Law, including the Ten Commandments) or the Prophets (the Old Testament prophetic writings) but to fulfill them. Jesus is presenting Himself as the fulfillment of the Law and the prophetic promises.
2. Continued Validity of the Law: The statement, "until heaven and earth pass away," emphasizes the enduring nature of the Law until the culmination of God's purposes. It indicates the continued validity of the moral and ethical principles contained in the Law.
3. Not the Smallest Letter or Stroke Will Pass Away: Jesus uses strong language to emphasize the precision and enduring authority of the Law. The "iota" refers to the smallest letter in the Greek alphabet, and the "dot" or "stroke" refers to the smallest mark or accent. The message is that every detail of the Law will be fulfilled.
4. Until All Is Accomplished: The Law will remain until all is accomplished, pointing to the fulfillment of God's redemptive plan through Jesus. The accomplishment includes His life, death, resurrection, and the establishment of the new covenant.

In summary, these verses express Jesus' continuity with the Old Testament Scriptures while also indicating His role in fulfilling their ultimate purpose. Jesus is presenting Himself as the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, and His teachings and redemptive work bring about the culmination of God's plan. The Law, in its moral and ethical principles, remains valid until the accomplishment of God's redemptive purposes in Christ.

End ChatGPT.

Anyone who claimed that Jesus did not fulfill every single requirement of the law and the prophets.
Would be very deceived, especially given that Jesus fulfilled everything and at all levels. Perfection!
Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of the entire Mosaic law, in person. The Divine creator of the law.
Jesus submitted the perfect sacrifice after living a perfect life under the law.
To hint that Jesus did not fulfill the law and the prophets would be blasphemy.
Jesus not only fulfilled the entire law but fulfilled the law for eternity.
Jesus was the only one who could perfectly fulfill the ten commandments.

 

[jamessb]

True, that's what the Pharisees accused Him of, but He was faithful and kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments. He just didn't keep the sabbath of the Pharisees, which was different than the Sabbath in the 4th commandment as they added many rules to God's Sabbath and we have clear instructions not to add or subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2

Are you serious? That is a fine example of sophistry.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, it sure is and sin, is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4, the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7, breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Only if you are under the law.

Gentiles commit the deeds of the flesh and are guilty.

 

[Aaron56]

Yes, it sure is and sin, is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4, the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7, breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Always with the sneaky cut-off.

Roman6:3 continues:

“By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

The law has no power or authority over a dead man.

 

[Johann]

Yes, it sure is and sin, is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4, the Ten Commandments Rom 7:7, breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The transgression of the law.—Or, lawlessness. He is not thinking of the law of Moses, but defining and analysing the nature of sin in general: it is acting from caprice instead of on principle, disobeying the conscience, neglecting the will of God, rebelling against His commandments.


Whosoever committeth sin (πᾶς ὁ ποιῶν τὴν ἁμαρτίαν)
Rev., better, every one that doeth sin. See on 1Jn_3:3, every man that hath, and note the frequent repetition of this form of expression in the present chapter. Compare πᾶς ὁ ἁμαρτάνων whosoever sinneth (1Jn_3:6). The phrase to do sin regards sin as something actually realized in its completeness. He that does sin realizes in action the sin (note the article τὴν) that which includes and represents the complete ideal of sin. Compare do righteousness, 1Jn_2:29.
Transgresseth also the law (καὶ τὴν ἀνομίαν ποιεῖ)
Rev., more accurately, doeth also lawlessness. Compare Mat_13:41, and the phrase οἱ ἐργαζόμενοι τὴν ἀνομίαν ye that work iniquity (Mat_7:23).
For (καὶ)
Rev., correctly, and. This and the preceding clause are coordinated after John's manner.
Is the transgression of the law (ἐστὶν ἡ ἀνομία)
Rev., correctly, is lawlessness. Sin is the violation of the law of our being, the law which includes our threefold relation to God, to the men and things around us, and to ourselves. Compare Jas_1:14; Jas_4:17.


As so often, the Apostle emphasizes his statement by giving the opposite case, and not the simple opposite, but an expansion of it. Instead of saying ‘every one that hath not this hope’ he says every one that doeth sin. The A.V. not only obscures this antithesis by changing ‘every man’ to ‘whosoever,’ but also the contrast between ‘doing righteousness’ (1Jn_2:29) and ‘doing sin’ by changing from ‘do’ to ‘commit.’ This contrast is all the more marked in the Greek because both words have the article; ‘doeth the righteousness,’ ‘doeth the sin.’ Equally unfortunate is the A.V. rendering of καὶ τὴν ἀνομίαν ποιεῖ, ‘transgresseth also the law:’ which destroys the parallel between ποιῶν τ. ἁμαρτ. and τ. ἀνομ. ποιεῖ. Note the chiasmus, and render with R.V.; Every one that doeth sin, doeth also lawlessness. To bring out the contrast and parallel it is imperative to have the same verb in both clauses and also in 1Jn_2:29 : to do sin is to do lawlessness, and this is the opposite of to do righteousness. The one marks the children of God, the other the children of the devil. ‘Lawlessness’ both in English and Greek (ἀνομία) means not the privation of law, but the disregard of it: not the having no law, but the acting as if one had none. (Comp. the Hebrew pesha and the LXX. rendering of it, Isa_43:27; Amo_4:4 : it implies faithless disregard of a covenant. This was precisely the case with some of the Gnostic teachers: they declared that their superior enlightenment placed them above the moral law; they were neither the better for keeping it nor the worse for breaking it. Sin and lawlessness, says the Apostle, are convertible terms: they are merely different aspects of the same state. (Hence the predicate as well as the subject has the article: see below.) And it is in its aspect of disregard of God’s law that sin is seen to be quite irreconcilable with being a child of God and having fellowship with God. See on 1Jn_3:17.

Pick one-
J.

 

[Johann]

Always with the sneaky cut-off.

Roman6:3 continues:

“By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

The law has no power or authority over a dead man.

Much better
J.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Who has not sinned today?

 

[Johann]

Who has not sinned today?

I have.
J.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I have.
J.

All of us have. So none of us is actually fulfilling Romans at all.

 

[Cameron143]

We can't walk in His Spirit if we are in rebellion. He does not force Himself on us, John 14:15-18, we have to cooperate and have a willing and moldable heart.

Sure. But God doesn't just give us power to obey. Jesus actually lives through us. There is no obedience apart from Christ doing it. He doesn't enable us. He actually performs it in and through us.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sure. But God doesn't just give us power to obey. Jesus actually lives through us. There is no obedience apart from Christ doing it. He doesn't enable us. He actually performs it in and through us.

Agree, the apostles said as much. Jesus was working through the apostles to achieve His aim.

Paul, Peter, Barnabas, just vessels carrying the divine declaration to humanity.

 

[Inquisitor]

All of us have. So none of us is actually fulfilling Romans at all.

The truth is Christians live their lives asking for forgiveness at every step of the way.

The more you examine yourself the more you will see the abject disobedience.

Our rebellious hearts are most clearly seen in what we have done in the past.

People murdered Jesus Christ, the creator and author of everything that exists.

That's the depth and degree of sin in the human heart. A blind, terrifying, madness, that commits sin at levels far beyond comprehension. We are all deeply afflicted and infected by sin and there is no cure for the flesh. The flesh must die, be put to death.

Lord forgive me of the vast array of sin that I am not even aware of.

 

[vassal]

Jesus wouldn't give us commandments that He asks us to keep, without giving us the power to keep them. I don't know how one can interpret we are not to break the least of the commandments to mean the opposite, but God gives us free to will test any theory we want, even though He gives us plenty of warnings.

Keeping the commandments changes you, i know i have changed quite a lot and still do. This is the spirit Jesus promised those who follow him, but many do not understand this, i sm glad you see this, and know this. It is a blessing that few experience @Magenta