Do stillborns and deceased babies go to 'hell'

[JTB]

Do stillborns and babies go to ‘hell’?

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Romans 7:8-11. I was alive once without the law when I was a child... I had no understanding of the law as a child and I was sinless because where there is no law, there is no sin. But when I became old enough to understand the law, sin slew me.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of your sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Romas 7:7 … I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 10 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came [to me], sin sprang to life and I died.

*

One is born innocent, and remains so, until one reaches the point where they think they know enough to make a decision about sin/God. Being born into sin, means we live in a world that is predisposed to make sure we make the wrong decision about God. Until they understand and decide, babies have no sin to die from.




Thoughts?

 

[notmyown]

Do stillborns and babies go to ‘hell’?

*

Romans 7:8-11. I was alive once without the law when I was a child... I had no understanding of the law as a child and I was sinless because where there is no law, there is no sin. But when I became old enough to understand the law, sin slew me.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of your sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Romas 7:7 … I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 10 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came [to me], sin sprang to life and I died.

*

One is born innocent, and remains so, until one reaches the point where they think they know enough to make a decision about sin/God. Being born into sin, means we live in a world that is predisposed to make sure we make the wrong decision about God. Until they understand and decide, babies have no sin to die from.




Thoughts?

may i ask what translation this is, brother? i was unable to find this wording.

thank you.

 

[Eli1]

Thoughts?

In May 2022, you and I had a brief exchange on this topic where I was trying to make people think about their understanding of salvation by saying that children will go in hell.

In that topic you said that we are not born with sin.
So, I am curious, and since I’ve never asked you, what is your understanding of salvation?

Mine is very different from most here, it’s the theology of theosis but I wanted to ask yours because these technical questions arise when one assumes to know where people will go [heaven or hell].

Thanks.

 

[vassal]

Do stillborns and babies go to ‘hell’?

*

Romans 7:8-11. I was alive once without the law when I was a child... I had no understanding of the law as a child and I was sinless because where there is no law, there is no sin. But when I became old enough to understand the law, sin slew me.

John 9:41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of your sin. But now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Romas 7:7 … I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 10 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came [to me], sin sprang to life and I died.

*

One is born innocent, and remains so, until one reaches the point where they think they know enough to make a decision about sin/God. Being born into sin, means we live in a world that is predisposed to make sure we make the wrong decision about God. Until they understand and decide, babies have no sin to die from.




Thoughts?

Do stillborns and babies go to ‘hell’?
NO, it would be Unjust, God Is Good and Just!

 

[JTB]

may i ask what translation this is, brother? i was unable to find this wording.

thank you.

NIV, from Bible Hub

 

[JTB]

In May 2022, you and I had a brief exchange on this topic where I was trying to make people think about their understanding of salvation by saying that children will go in hell.

In that topic you said that we are not born with sin.
So, I am curious, and since I’ve never asked you, what is your understanding of salvation?

Mine is very different from most here, it’s the theology of theosis but I wanted to ask yours because these technical questions arise when one assumes to know where people will go [heaven or hell].

Thanks.

Romans 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Salvation is not works based, but faith based.

 

[Eli1]

Romans 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Salvation is not works based, but faith based.

Okay, so based on that, where do you think babies or children go?

 

[Magenta]

NIV, from Bible Hub

Nope, it is not that translation:

(NIV) Romans 7:7-11
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what
sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law
had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment,
produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart
from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity
afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was alive once without the law when I was a child

Not found anywhere in Romans 7:8-11

Searching the whole page with multiple translations for the word child in verse 9,
only childhood comes up as a possible match within a couple (or more?) commentaries.

 

[JTB]

Okay, so based on that, where do you think babies or children go?

That doesn't really apply to babies. Not knowing or understanding the law, they are not dead to sin (scripture very clearly says that). And only the dead need saving.

 

[JTB]

Nope, it is not that translation:

(NIV) Romans 7:7-11
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what
sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law
had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment,
produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart
from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity
afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was alive once without the law when I was a child

Not found anywhere in Romans 7:8-11

Interesting, because I literally copied and pasted it.

But either way, they say the same thing.

I did extrapolate the [to me] part. Is that the issue?

 

[Eli1]

That doesn't really apply to babies. Not knowing or understanding the law, they are not dead to sin (scripture very clearly says that). And only the dead need saving.

Thank you for answering and I’ll leave it here because even a topic of dying children does not grab people’s attention sometimes when they talk about knowing where people will go.

 

[Magenta]

Interesting, because I literally copied and pasted it.

But either way, they say the same thing.

I did extrapolate the [to me] part. Is that the issue?

No translation on the main page of translations uses the word "child" in verse 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11.

 

[JTB]

Nope, it is not that translation:

(NIV) Romans 7:7-11
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what
sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law
had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment,
produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart
from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity
afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was alive once without the law when I was a child

Not found anywhere in Romans 7:8-11

Searching the whole page with multiple translations for the word child in verse 9,
only childhood comes up as a possible match within a couple (or more?) commentaries.

Ok, I see it now. Perhaps that was the amplified version. I'll have to look that up but right now it's off to church!

 

[JTB]

No translation on the main page of translations uses the word "child" in verse 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11.

Does that really change the meaning?

 

[Magenta]

Ok, I see it now. Perhaps that was the amplified version. I'll have to look that up but right now it's off to church!

Nope, not that one either.

 

[JTB]

Nope, not that one either.

Well I see now that I did make an error somewhere, but does it really change the meaning? Before we knew the law we were alive, knowing the law brought death, that's when we need to be saved

 

[Magenta]

Well I see now that I did make an error somewhere, but does it really change the meaning? Before
we knew the law we were alive, knowing the law brought death, that's when we need to be saved

Adding, subtracting, changing words, yes, of course it makes difference.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: stillborn/deceased babies go to hell?:
More thoughts - "David's child with Bathsheba":

"But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him​

back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. "​

(2 Samuel 12:23)​

​

Where will David go?:

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of​

my life: and I will dwell in The House of The LORD for ever."​

(Psalm 23:6)​

​

Amen.

 

[JTB]

Adding, subtracting, changing words, yes, of course it makes difference.

Oy vey. This is what I get when I dive in late at night under the influence of a taco coma.

And at least I'm willing to admit my mistakes. Fewer and fewer people can say that these days.

But again, my error doesn't change scripture. Scripture still says we start alive, understanding the law brings death, salvation brings life again.

And this is all off point.

Do you believe stillborns and decease babies got to hell, and why? That is the subject.

 

[JTB]

op: stillborn/deceased babies go to hell?:
More thoughts - "David's child with Bathsheba":

"But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him​

back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. "​

(2 Samuel 12:23)​

​

Where will David go?:

"Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of​

my life: and I will dwell in The House of The LORD for ever."​

(Psalm 23:6)​

​

Amen.

Is this talking about physical death, or spiritual death?