The angel of the LORD.

Bible_Highlighter · Feb 22, 2024

Yes, Jesus is the “Angel of the Lord.” Yet, Jesus is not a created angel, either. Jesus is eternally God and had no beginning. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity or Godhead.

Jesus made pre-incarnate appearances in the Old Testament under the title of the “Angel of the Lord.”

So how do we reconcile this?

Well, there are two possibilities here.

#1. The word “angel” is simply a generic word meaning “messenger” and can refer to either created angels or the Angel of the Lord who is Jesus (Who is our Eternal God and uncreated and second person of the Trinity).

#2. The word “angel” is accurate but it refers to how Jesus took on the hollowed skin of angels (with no soul or mind of any angel included). It would sort of be like a cloak or covering. An angel suit to hide Christ’s glory.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

Excellent @Bible_Highlighter on The-Definite Article-Angel of the Lord.
J.

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

bluto said:

Are you saying you have not read this yourself. I believe it is in Judges, the story of Sampon, but hold on, I will use helps to find it for you. It will take me a while.

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

bluto said:

OK, with helps , this old man found it. It is in Judges.

Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Jdg 13:23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

JaumeJ said:

Some other passages in the Old Testament that mention the Angel of the Lord include:

Genesis 16:7-14: The Angel of the Lord appears to Hagar in the wilderness and promises to multiply her descendants.

Genesis 22:11-18: The Angel of the Lord stops Abraham from sacrificing his son Isaac and promises to bless him and multiply his descendants.

Exodus 3:2-6: The Angel of the Lord appears to Moses in the burning bush and identifies himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Judges 2:1-5: The Angel of the Lord rebukes the Israelites for breaking their covenant with God.

Judges 6:11-24: The Angel of the Lord appears to Gideon and commissions him to save Israel from the Midianites.

Judges 13:2-23: The Angel of the Lord appears to Samson's parents and announces the birth of their son.

Zechariah 1:7-17: The Angel of the Lord appears to the prophet Zechariah and promises to restore Jerusalem.

These appearances of the Angel of the Lord have led many scholars to conclude that this figure is a manifestation of the pre-incarnate Christ.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

Johann said:

The ancient rabbis had various interpretations of the Angel of the Lord. Some believed that the Angel was a created angel with special credentials and a special relationship to God, while others believed that the Angel was a divine person, such as the uncreated Angel, the Logos or Son of God, who often appeared in human form before His incarnation.

Some rabbis also believed that the Angel was a prophet, as he spoke in a public congregation and made predictions that no other angel was capable of making

. However, it is important to note that the rabbinical writings are not considered authoritative in Christianity, and the interpretation of the Angel of the Lord is primarily based on biblical evidence.

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

Johann said:

Our Father declared to Moses that He will be What He will be. This mystery alone should be explination enough that He is the Angel of the Lord,, the Son, the Holy Spirit , the Father, adn much much more. He is One, the gift of faith should be enough to believe this without having a need to understand it all It will all be clear come the resurrection, but for now, all she be content to believe what He taught us from Moses.

He will be What He will be. No complications if you believe. Again as declared in the old and the New testaments, God is One; so not try to understand by making up a doctrine that sounds good. He IS always Good.

bluto · Feb 22, 2024

JaumeJ said:

I asked the question because I did not know who's parents you had in mind, that's all.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

bluto · Feb 22, 2024

Bible_Highlighter said:

Important Note so that there is no confusion:

Christ is the Eternal God who is the creator (John 1:1 KJV), uncreated, and second person of the Godhead or Trinity. He is the eternal Word who was made flesh (John 1:14 KJV). For the Lord our God is one God who exists in three distinct persons (i.e. the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit) (1 John 5:7 KJV). Jesus Christ is God Almighty in the flesh and He is not a created angel as we would understand that word today. In the KJV: the word "angel" in reference to the title "Angel of the Lord" is actually translated as "Messenger" in the Hebrew. So the words as we would understand it today would say "Messenger of the Lord". So, no. Jesus is not an angel in our modern understanding. However, the Angel of the Lord is a title or a name. Anyways, I believe this "Messenger of the Lord" is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ (Who is God) in the Old Testament. Again, these pre-incarnate appearances are called "Theophanies" or "Christophanies".

Jesus (Who is the Eternal God) is the Messenger of the Lord in the OT:

It is quite astonishing to discover that Jesus Christ appears not only in the prophecies and typifications within the Old Testament but He also actually makes real pre-incarnate physical appearances in the Old Testament, as well. Many of these appearances are under the title of the "Angel of the Lord" in the KJV. Yet, we clearly know that Jesus is not a created angel or being but He is God Almighty Himself (or the second person in the Godhead or Trinity).

Anyways, please take the time to look up the origin of the word "angel" at etymonline. While you are there, you will discover that it can also be defined as "messenger".

Online Etymology Dictionary

In other words, Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament!

Now, where does our Lord Jesus appear as a messenger in the Old Testament?

1. The Story of Hagar -

Genesis 16:7-13

The angel of the LORD promised to do something that only God can do (see v.10). Hagar knew that it was the Lord who spoke to her (v. 13) and she identified the angel of the LORD as God: "Thou God seest me" (v.13).

Genesis 21:17-20

The angel of the Lord promised to do something only God can do (see v.18). This angel is identified as God (v.19).

2. The Story of Abraham & Sarah -

Genesis 18:1-33

Although the title of the "angel of the Lord" is not used here, it is clear within this chapter that is Jesus Christ. First, "the Lord appeared unto him (i.e. Abraham)" (v. 1) followed by the immediate appearance of three men (v. 2). Abraham and Sarah both call him Lord, as well (v. 3) (v. 12). The Lord also knew Sarah had laughed at God's promise when she was not present (v. 15).

3. The Story of Abraham & Isaac -

Genesis 22:15-18

The angel of the Lord is speaking (verses 15-16) and yet verse 16 makes it clear that it is God who is speaking ("saith the LORD")! In verses 17-18 the angel of the Lord promises to do what only God can do.

4. The Story of Jacob -

Genesis 31:11-13

The angel of God (v.11) identifies Himself as God: "I am the God of Bethel" (v.13).

Genesis 32:24-32

Jacob wrestles with a man who he later identifies the place with the name "Peniel", which means he had seen God face to face (v. 30).

5. The Story of Joseph -

Genesis 48:14-16

When Jacob was blessing Joseph and his sons he mentions :The Angel which redeemed me from all evil" (v. 16). Now, last time I checked, but angels do not redeem anyone. They are simply guardians.

6. The Story of Moses -

Exodus 3:2-7

The angel of the Lord appeared to Moses out of the midst of a burning bush and identified Himself as God (verses 4 and 6) and as Lord (verses 4 and 7). See also Acts 7:30-32 where the angel of the Lord is identified as the Lord God.

Exodus 14:19-21

The angel of God does what only God can do (verses 19-20) and is identified with the glorious manifestation of God in the pillar of the cloud (verses 19-20). In verse 21 this angel is identified as "the LORD".

Exodus 23:20-23

This passage makes it clear that the Lord’s angel is much more than a mere angel; this angel is closely identified with God: Lord’s "name is in Him" (v.21, "name" referring to Lord's nature and character) and God’s people must "obey His voice" (v.21). Indeed, He has the authority to "pardon your transgressions" or not to pardon them, and who can forgive sins but God alone? Notice that the angel is distinct from God and sent by God. The LORD said, "Behold, I send an angel before thee." We are reminded of New Testament parallels as the Son was distinct from the Father and sent by the Father (John 3:17; etc.) and yet equal to the Father (John 5:18) (John 10:30).

7. The Story of Balaam -

Numbers 22:20-35

Now in the story of Balaam, we begin with God speaking directly to Balaam, then a transition from God to "angel of the Lord" So guess who was standing before Balaam? None other than Jesus Christ. The "angel of the LORD" is used many times in verses 23-26, and verses 31-35 and the LORD in verses 28-31. Then continuing in Chapter 23 God meets Balaam in verse 4 and the LORD is mentioned in verses 5 and 16. These titles are being used interchangeably.

8. The Story of Joshua -

Joshua 5:13-15

Again, although the "Angel of the Lord" is not mentioned here, Jesus did appear to Joshua in the form of a man. This man was worshiped by Joshua (v. 14) and this man declared that Joshua was standing on Holy ground (v. 15).

9. The Beginning Story of the Judges -

Judges 2:1-3

The angel of Lord says things that only God could say. God is the One who brought them into the land which He swore to give unto their fathers (v.1). God is the One who promised to never break His covenant (v.1).

10. The Story of Gideon -

Judges 6:11-24

As you follow this passage, pay close attention to who is speaking to Gideon: in verse 12 the angel of the Lord is speaking; in verse 14 the Lord is speaking; in verse 16 the Lord is speaking; in verse 20 the angel of God is speaking. Lord and the angel of Lord are one and the same.

11. The Story of Samson's Birth -

Judges 13:3-23

Note especially verses 17-18. Manoah said to the angel of the Lord, "What is Thy Name?" (v.17) and the angel of the Lord said, "Why asketh thou thus after My Name, seeing it is secret?" The word "secret" may be translated "wonderful." It is the same Hebrew word found in Isaiah 9:6 – "His Name shall be called wonderful." In Isaiah 9:6 the term is used as a name of Christ who is also called "the Mighty God." The fact that the Lord's angel was God was certainly known by Manoah. After the angel of the Lord appeared to him Manoah said, "We have seen God!" (v.22).

Conclusion:

The Angel of the Lord is also mentioned in the story of David, Isaiah, the Psalms, and Zechariah. So it is amazing to see how Jesus Christ being our eternal God was always present in the past, even revealing Himself within the sacred Scriptures of the Old Testament, too.

Let me also add that the Hebrew word for angel is "malak." It simply means "messenger." It can also refer to an actual angel as well, the context determines how it is used. For instance at Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/messenger/angel, and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the malak/messenger/angel if the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

In this verse the first messenger is John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-3. "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Vs2, As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, "Behold, I send My messenger before your face, Who will prepare Your way; vs3, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."

Of course John is not an angel, except maybe to his mother! The second "malak/messenger/angel," the messenger of the covenant is Jesus Christ. Judges 2:1, "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, And he said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I HAVE SWORN TO YOUR FATHERS; and I said, I will never break My covenant with you."

As a side note, the prophet "Malachi's" name is from the word "malak." and it goes without saying that Malachi is not an angel but a human messenger/prophet.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

JaumeJ said:

bluto said:

Here it is again. Enjoy reading it.

Bible_Highlighter · Feb 22, 2024

bluto said:

Let me also add that the Hebrew word for angel is "malak." It simply means "messenger." It can also refer to an actual angel as well, the context determines how it is used. For instance at Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/messenger/angel, and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the malak/messenger/angel if the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

In this verse the first messenger is John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-3. "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Vs2, As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, "Behold, I send My messenger before your face, Who will prepare Your way; vs3, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."

Of course John is not an angel, except maybe to his mother! The second "malak/messenger/angel," the messenger of the covenant is Jesus Christ. Judges 2:1, "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, And he said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I HAVE SWORN TO YOUR FATHERS; and I said, I will never break My covenant with you."

As a side note, the prophet "Malachi's" name is from the word "malak." and it goes without saying that Malachi is not an angel but a human messenger/prophet.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Masterfully said. Thank you for sharing.

May God‘s goodness and grace greatly shine upon you and your family beyond all measure.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 22, 2024

Johann said:

Christians cannot go by what the ancient (or modern) rabbis have to say. There is only ONE interpretation for who is "the Angel of the LORD" and that is clearly spelled out in Exodus chapter 3.

EXODUS 3: CHRIST SAID THAT HE IS "I AM". AND HE IS ALSO THE ANGEL OF THE LORD

HE IS "THE ANGEL OF THE LORD"
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

HE IS |"THE LORD" AND ALSO "GOD"
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground...

HE IS "I AM THAT I AM" AND ALSO "I AM"
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you...

HE IS "THE LORD GOD" AND "THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB"
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations...

HE IS "THE LORD GOD OF THE HEBREWS"
18 And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

This is just an amazing chapter which gives us EIGHT different names/designations for Christ. No man has seen God the Father at any time. But Christ has "declared" or "revealed" Him to mankind, and it is the pre-incarnate Christ who appeared to Moses (as well to several others) as "the Angel of the LORD". Not merely a "messenger" (as some would have us believe), but God in human form. And eventually He came as Jesus (Yeshua) of Nazareth, and is now "the Lord Jesus Christ".

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

You echo what I have already said-EhYeh aSher EhYeh [Hashem] The Name revealed to Moshe. This is NOT the Angel of the Lord YHVH.

Genesis 16:7-14: The Angel of the Lord appears to Hagar.

Genesis 22:15-17: The Angel of the Lord called to Abraham.

Genesis 31:11: The Angel of God said to Jacob in a dream.

Genesis 48:16: The Angel who has redeemed Jacob from all harm blesses Joseph's sons.

Exodus 3:2: The Angel of the Lord appears to Moses in a burning bush.

Judges 6:20, 22-23: The Angel of God speaks to Gideon.

Judges 13:21-22: Samson's parents speak to the Angel of the Lord.

2 Kings 19:35: The Angel of the Lord strikes 185,000 Assyrians.

These are just a few examples of the many appearances of the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. The identity of the Angel of the Lord is a subject of debate among scholars, with some interpreting the Angel as a created angel with special credentials, and others identifying the Angel as a pre-incarnate manifestation of Jesus Christ.

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

bluto said:

Let me also add that the Hebrew word for angel is "malak." It simply means "messenger." It can also refer to an actual angel as well, the context determines how it is used. For instance at Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My "malak/messenger/angel, and he will clear the way before Me, And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the malak/messenger/angel if the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

In this verse the first messenger is John the Baptist. Mark 1:1-3. "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Vs2, As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, "Behold, I send My messenger before your face, Who will prepare Your way; vs3, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."

Of course John is not an angel, except maybe to his mother! The second "malak/messenger/angel," the messenger of the covenant is Jesus Christ. Judges 2:1, "Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, And he said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I HAVE SWORN TO YOUR FATHERS; and I said, I will never break My covenant with you."

As a side note, the prophet "Malachi's" name is from the word "malak." and it goes without saying that Malachi is not an angel but a human messenger/prophet.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Malak does indeed translate fully as angel or messenger. Malaki would translate as my messenger. A similar word from the Hebrew is Melek which means King....... Learning the full maning of names and certain words of the Book shine bright Light on all reading.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

JaumeJ said:

The Hebrew word for "angel" is מַלְאָךְ (mal'āḵ), which literally means "messenger"

. The Hebrew names for specific angels, such as Gabriel and Michael, derive from descriptive titles rather than direct references to their roles as messengers. For example, Gabriel's name means "God is my strength" or "The trumpeter"

, and Michael's name means "Who is like God"?

These names reflect the diverse functions and characteristics attributed to angels in various traditions. While the Hebrew Bible primarily presents angels as messengers, later Jewish and Christian writings developed complex hierarchical structures and unique roles for angels beyond simple messengering.

JaumeJ · Feb 22, 2024

Jesus Yeshua proclaime He is the Bread from Heaven. It is no small wonder that He was bornin Bethlehem, which fully translates as House of Bread.
Living in Nazareth after He was brought back from Mitsraim *Egypt:, He would have been rereferred to as as a Nazar, which fulfills the prophecy in Zecharia I believe, being The Branch. Nazaar is Branch. If memory serves me correctly.

I love the fully translated words from Hebrew. By the way look up malak and give a full etymology of the word. I could try but I would slaughter it .................

Nehemiah6 · Feb 22, 2024

Johann said:

Since you are denying what is plainly revealed to you in that post and the Scriptures provided, there is no need for any further discussion. In fact you should have agreed 100%. Instead you have gone off on a tangent.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

JaumeJ said:

ךּ
mal’āḵ: A masculine noun meaning a messenger, an angel. The term often denotes one sent on business or diplomacy by another (human) personage. Jacob sent messengers on ahead to his brother Esau in the hope of finding favor in his eyes (Gen_32:3 [4], Gen_32:6 [7]). The elders of Jabesh sent messengers throughout Israel in a desperate attempt to locate someone who could rescue their town from the dire threat of the Ammonites (1Sa_11:3-4, 1Sa_11:9; cf. 2Sa_11:19; 1Ki_19:2; 2Ki_5:10). Very often, the term referred to messengers sent from God. Sometimes these were human messengers, whether prophets (Isa_44:26; Hag_1:13; Mal_3:1); priests (Ecc_5:6 [5]; Mal_2:7); or the whole nation of Israel (Isa_42:19). More often, however, the term referred to heavenly beings who often assumed human form (Gen_19:1; Jdg_13:6, Jdg_13:15-16) and appeared to people as bearers of the Lord's commands and tidings (Jdg_6:11-12; Jdg_13:3). They were often responsible for aiding, protecting, and fighting for those who trusted in the Lord (Gen_24:7; Exo_23:20; Exo_33:2; 1Ki_19:5; Psa_34:7 [8]; Psa_91:11). They also acted as instruments of divine judgment, meting out punishment on the rebellious and the guilty (2Sa_24:16-17; Psa_35:5-6; Psa_78:49; Isa_37:36). Sometimes the angel of the Lord and his message are so closely identified with the Lord Himself that the text simply refers to the angel as "the Lord" or "God" (Gen_16:7; Gen_22:11; Gen_31:11; Exo_3:2; Jdg_13:18; cf. Gen_16:13; Gen_22:12; Gen_31:13, Gen_31:16; Exo_3:4; Jdg_6:22; Jdg_13:22).
WS

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

My faculties are intact.

No, God the Father [Ehyeh aSher ehyeh] is not directly identified as the angel of the Lord in the Bible

Instead, the angel of the Lord is often understood to be a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, particularly in the Old Testament

. While the exact identity of the angel of the Lord remains somewhat ambiguous, the angel of the Lord is consistently depicted as someone who speaks as God, identifies with God, and performs actions that align with God's character

. The angel of the Lord is distinct from ordinary angels and is often considered part of the divine council

J.

Johann · Feb 22, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

You have not fully comprehend what I wrote to you.
J.

The angel of the LORD.

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