Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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N
How is it that you turn to insults when you cannot respond with scripture to prove your false understanding of the Bible?
You are and have been designated to be involved with false declarations...things nowhere to be found in scripture....by those here who do follow the truth and know and point out false doctrine when it pops up.
In Revelation, Jesus commends the Ephesians for exposing false teachers/prophets. There is no commendation to be found in what you are saying and insults, which you seem to use often enough, are not a gift from the Holy Spirit
I fully concur-
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Stand strong in Christ Jesus.
J.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Stand strong in Christ Jesus.
J.
N
Here is sound advice-and of course not ALL will be saved.
10 Ways to Respond to Opposition
DON’T RESPOND TO OPPOSITION WITH THAT TOXIC BLEND OF FEAR AND ANGER. RESPOND WITH GRACE AND TRUTH.
By David "Gunner" Gundersen • November 13, 2018
Outrage. Fear. Confusion. Anger. Nostalgia. Withdrawal. Many of the ways we Christians respond to opposition are far from ideal.
Peter knew what it was like to face opposition — to lash out in anger or draw back in fear; to be restored in love, and then to step out boldly with gospel courage. It took him years to learn, but with Christ beside him and the Spirit within him, he did. Later in life, he wrote a letter to fellow sufferers and taught them how to respond Christianly to opposition. His lessons can help you, too.
Don’t be surprised.
“Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you” (1 Pet 4:12).
This isn’t new. It isn’t strange. It’s normal. Paul promises that “all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Tim 3:12). “In the same way,” Jesus reminds us, “they persecuted the prophets who were before you” (Matt 5:12). Don’t be surprised. God certainly isn’t.
Calm your outrage.
“Have no fear of them, nor be troubled” (1 Pet 3:14).
The constantly outraged Christian is a sad sight. Don’t respond to opposition with that toxic blend of fear and anger. Respond with grace and truth. The words “outrage” and “courage” both have the word “rage” in them. But they’re totally different attitudes. We need less reactionary outrage and more courageous love.
Repent when needed.
“But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler” (1 Pet 4:15).
Sometimes, Christians aren’t respected because we’re not respectable. Sometimes the world says “Christians are hypocrites” and the world is right. Sometimes our opponents see our failures far more clearly than we do. If you’re a racist, you need to repent. If you hate gay people, you need to repent. If you’re rude or gossipy or arrogant at work, don’t get all blustery and claim “persecution” when a coworker calls you on it. Let’s own our sins, and repent when needed. Jesus will forgive us and change us — he’ll even save us if that’s what we need — and the world will appreciate the rare example of humility.
Keep loving each other.
“Above all, keep loving one another earnestly” (1 Pet 4:8–10).
When a community faces challenges, we’re tempted to turn against each other. Like Euodia and Syntyche, we who’ve labored side by side in the gospel sometimes end up toe to toe in some intramural battle (Phil 4:2–3). We need to guard against this temptation, especially when opposition heats up. If our battle isn’t against flesh and blood (Eph 6:12), our battle certainly should never be against each other.
Always love your enemies.
“Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called” (1 Pet 3:9).
Ultimately, it’s never us vs. them. It’s Jesus for all. It’s the gospel for all. It’s grace and truth for all. The best way to imitate Christ is to treat people well when they wrong us. Loving our enemies, whether individual or collective, means treating others like Jesus has treated us.
Trust God and do good.
“Therefore, let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good (1 Pet 4:19). For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people” (1 Pet 2:15).
Keep doing kingdom work. Keep serving each person you meet. Keep loving everyone who crosses your path. Don’t try to silence the critics and skeptics by yelling louder. Trust God and do what’s right. Remember that example is the loudest voice in every room. God will take care of us, so keep calm and carry on.
Share your hope.
“But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you” (1 Pet 3:15).
In a world like ours, if your life is marked by grace and truth and love and integrity and hospitality and Christian warmth, people will eventually ask what’s wrong with you. So develop “gospel fluency,” and stay ready to answer people’s questions and challenges. If you’re a Christian, you have a mesmerizing hope. Act like it, and be prepared to share it.
Always be respectful.
“Yet do it with gentleness and respect” (1 Pet 3:15).
A rude evangelist isn’t. As you share Christ with people, always be respectful. Evangelism sometimes means difficult conversations, but we should never be difficult people. Avoid verbal fights, be gentle, and “show perfect courtesy toward all people” (Titus 3:2).
Remember your Christian family.
“. . . firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world” (1 Pet 5:9).
We’re not the first ones, the last ones, the only ones, or the main ones who are suffering. In the West, most of our micro-suffering would barely register among so many brothers and sisters abroad. We should remember, with prayer and sympathy and great respect, the many others who endure so much more opposition than we do. Even when we do face legitimate challenges to our faith, we’re in good and noble company.
Look to the east.
“And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you” (1 Pet 5:10). “Set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet 1:13).
Darkness has never stopped the dawn. So we have every reason to fix our eyes on the far horizon. We have every reason to hope that God “will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish” us. We have every reason to anticipate our “eternal glory in Christ.” Jesus is coming back. So when the night deepens, stay on the trail and look to the east.
Shalom
J.
10 Ways to Respond to Opposition
DON’T RESPOND TO OPPOSITION WITH THAT TOXIC BLEND OF FEAR AND ANGER. RESPOND WITH GRACE AND TRUTH.
By David "Gunner" Gundersen • November 13, 2018
Outrage. Fear. Confusion. Anger. Nostalgia. Withdrawal. Many of the ways we Christians respond to opposition are far from ideal.
Peter knew what it was like to face opposition — to lash out in anger or draw back in fear; to be restored in love, and then to step out boldly with gospel courage. It took him years to learn, but with Christ beside him and the Spirit within him, he did. Later in life, he wrote a letter to fellow sufferers and taught them how to respond Christianly to opposition. His lessons can help you, too.
Don’t be surprised.
“Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you” (1 Pet 4:12).
This isn’t new. It isn’t strange. It’s normal. Paul promises that “all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Tim 3:12). “In the same way,” Jesus reminds us, “they persecuted the prophets who were before you” (Matt 5:12). Don’t be surprised. God certainly isn’t.
Calm your outrage.
“Have no fear of them, nor be troubled” (1 Pet 3:14).
The constantly outraged Christian is a sad sight. Don’t respond to opposition with that toxic blend of fear and anger. Respond with grace and truth. The words “outrage” and “courage” both have the word “rage” in them. But they’re totally different attitudes. We need less reactionary outrage and more courageous love.
Repent when needed.
“But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler” (1 Pet 4:15).
Sometimes, Christians aren’t respected because we’re not respectable. Sometimes the world says “Christians are hypocrites” and the world is right. Sometimes our opponents see our failures far more clearly than we do. If you’re a racist, you need to repent. If you hate gay people, you need to repent. If you’re rude or gossipy or arrogant at work, don’t get all blustery and claim “persecution” when a coworker calls you on it. Let’s own our sins, and repent when needed. Jesus will forgive us and change us — he’ll even save us if that’s what we need — and the world will appreciate the rare example of humility.
Keep loving each other.
“Above all, keep loving one another earnestly” (1 Pet 4:8–10).
When a community faces challenges, we’re tempted to turn against each other. Like Euodia and Syntyche, we who’ve labored side by side in the gospel sometimes end up toe to toe in some intramural battle (Phil 4:2–3). We need to guard against this temptation, especially when opposition heats up. If our battle isn’t against flesh and blood (Eph 6:12), our battle certainly should never be against each other.
Always love your enemies.
“Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called” (1 Pet 3:9).
Ultimately, it’s never us vs. them. It’s Jesus for all. It’s the gospel for all. It’s grace and truth for all. The best way to imitate Christ is to treat people well when they wrong us. Loving our enemies, whether individual or collective, means treating others like Jesus has treated us.
Trust God and do good.
“Therefore, let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good (1 Pet 4:19). For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people” (1 Pet 2:15).
Keep doing kingdom work. Keep serving each person you meet. Keep loving everyone who crosses your path. Don’t try to silence the critics and skeptics by yelling louder. Trust God and do what’s right. Remember that example is the loudest voice in every room. God will take care of us, so keep calm and carry on.
Share your hope.
“But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you” (1 Pet 3:15).
In a world like ours, if your life is marked by grace and truth and love and integrity and hospitality and Christian warmth, people will eventually ask what’s wrong with you. So develop “gospel fluency,” and stay ready to answer people’s questions and challenges. If you’re a Christian, you have a mesmerizing hope. Act like it, and be prepared to share it.
Always be respectful.
“Yet do it with gentleness and respect” (1 Pet 3:15).
A rude evangelist isn’t. As you share Christ with people, always be respectful. Evangelism sometimes means difficult conversations, but we should never be difficult people. Avoid verbal fights, be gentle, and “show perfect courtesy toward all people” (Titus 3:2).
Remember your Christian family.
“. . . firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world” (1 Pet 5:9).
We’re not the first ones, the last ones, the only ones, or the main ones who are suffering. In the West, most of our micro-suffering would barely register among so many brothers and sisters abroad. We should remember, with prayer and sympathy and great respect, the many others who endure so much more opposition than we do. Even when we do face legitimate challenges to our faith, we’re in good and noble company.
Look to the east.
“And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you” (1 Pet 5:10). “Set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet 1:13).
Darkness has never stopped the dawn. So we have every reason to fix our eyes on the far horizon. We have every reason to hope that God “will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish” us. We have every reason to anticipate our “eternal glory in Christ.” Jesus is coming back. So when the night deepens, stay on the trail and look to the east.
Shalom
J.
I'm certainly reformed in my beliefs. I've never read Calvin other than through quotations, but I'm disposed to believe God is far more active in salvation than many seem to believe, and the condition of fallen man is far worse than many imagine.
Take for instance the discussion earlier today. I believe in a limited atonement not on the basis of election but based on the justice of God. I don't believe the justice of God allows Him to accept payment for sin and still require further payment. I end up with the same place as Calvin but for different reasons. I don't believe God created people for hell and destruction. I believe people fit themselves for destruction.
Take for instance the discussion earlier today. I believe in a limited atonement not on the basis of election but based on the justice of God. I don't believe the justice of God allows Him to accept payment for sin and still require further payment. I end up with the same place as Calvin but for different reasons. I don't believe God created people for hell and destruction. I believe people fit themselves for destruction.
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N
.......or....despise evil as the Ephesians did and kicked all the false out of their church because they loved the truth
I totally understand what you have posted above, and I have been there and back and everything in between and once one understands that we are talking about matters of life and death, then one must pray in every situation as to how handle it
If there is opposition here, it is certainly not to a person. In fact, the opposition does not come from flesh and blood. Again, we do not wrestle against humans.....but against wicked spirits who are the enemy of all truth and despise God and all of His creation
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Are you saying that choosing to follow Jesus means one is 'elect'? I'm not quite understanding what you wrote
That is not what I'm suggesting.
It is a spiritually allegorical and symbolic representation of the covenants used by God in demonstrating His salvation plan. It was not intended to be a historical nor mappings/depictions of actual physical linages or nations. Spiritually, and symbolically, the covenants depicted the unsaved, from Agar onwards; the saved from Sarah onwards. God used earthly Jerusalem - of the nation of Israel - to depict those under the bondage of law; He used spiritual Jerusalem - the Jerusalem above - to depict those free of law.
[Rom 9:7 KJV] 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Did you read/understand the allegory of Galatians 4?
[Gal 4:22-29, 30-31 KJV]
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
It is a spiritually allegorical and symbolic representation of the covenants used by God in demonstrating His salvation plan. It was not intended to be a historical nor mappings/depictions of actual physical linages or nations. Spiritually, and symbolically, the covenants depicted the unsaved, from Agar onwards; the saved from Sarah onwards. God used earthly Jerusalem - of the nation of Israel - to depict those under the bondage of law; He used spiritual Jerusalem - the Jerusalem above - to depict those free of law.
[Rom 9:7 KJV] 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Did you read/understand the allegory of Galatians 4?
[Gal 4:22-29, 30-31 KJV]
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Seems to me that it is you who is doing the insulting.
So, does this reply mean that you are unable to map-out and diagram the superior grammatical conclusions that you've come to regarding the verse in question, to clearly illustrate its true and intended biblical meaning which apparently, I have missed?
So, does this reply mean that you are unable to map-out and diagram the superior grammatical conclusions that you've come to regarding the verse in question, to clearly illustrate its true and intended biblical meaning which apparently, I have missed?
Well, I guess here is where I would [re-]insert this link to a previous post (where I'd placed a further link to an old post--'Post #15' different thread--on this Subject) in Post #40 (page 2):
--Post #40 - https://christianchat.com/threads/d...en-in-the-book-of-life-or.214168/post-5245559
--Post #40 - https://christianchat.com/threads/d...en-in-the-book-of-life-or.214168/post-5245559
N
Please indicate where I insulted you. I won't hold my breath.
When you say personal things to people such as "It's absurd to you because you have no understanding of how to read Bible - you are blind to it, which is one reason why you come to so many unbiblical conclusions.", as you said to me, that is an insult and there is no basis for it. You are simply dodging scripture I presented.
When you say personal things to people such as "It's absurd to you because you have no understanding of how to read Bible - you are blind to it, which is one reason why you come to so many unbiblical conclusions.", as you said to me, that is an insult and there is no basis for it. You are simply dodging scripture I presented.
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Well it is and can be a hotly debated around here and all over for that matter.
I believe John 3:16....whosoever will...that is, anyone may come to Christ and God is not a respecter of persons. Romans 2:11
I do not make a distinction between 'elect' and free will. Whosoever will is pretty simple I think. People who make the distinction of elect vs non-elect seem to leave out the fact that God does give us a choice (we see this throughout the Old Testament and in the New also but it is especially clear when God is speaking to the Israelites). Stating, as some do and especially stalwart Calvinists, that people do not have a choice in salvation....ie. God decides who will be saved and who will go to hell....cannot be found in scripture unless you twist wording to back up your own persuation(s)
So, if I understand you, you seem to be saying that all who accept Christ are the 'elect'. Do I understand you correctly?
I believe John 3:16....whosoever will...that is, anyone may come to Christ and God is not a respecter of persons. Romans 2:11
I do not make a distinction between 'elect' and free will. Whosoever will is pretty simple I think. People who make the distinction of elect vs non-elect seem to leave out the fact that God does give us a choice (we see this throughout the Old Testament and in the New also but it is especially clear when God is speaking to the Israelites). Stating, as some do and especially stalwart Calvinists, that people do not have a choice in salvation....ie. God decides who will be saved and who will go to hell....cannot be found in scripture unless you twist wording to back up your own persuation(s)
So, if I understand you, you seem to be saying that all who accept Christ are the 'elect'. Do I understand you correctly?
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