Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[MerSee]

Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

I believe Jesus Christ died for all the “whosoevers” that will believe in Him.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17 (KJV)

You have to remember that the unelects refuse to believe all sound doctrine from Jesus Christ.

 

[MerSee]

But you don't

You call Jesus a liar.

Plain and simple

The unelects are eternally condemned through their own fault.

 

[MerSee]

NO

IT DOES NOT SAY ELECT IN JOHN 3

why are you tryign to add to the word a word that is not there ?

Only the elect are eternally saved; it is quite obvious.

 

[rogerg]

what does this have to do with Gods promise to Israel in Gen 12, 15 and 17?

God's remaining promises were made to spiritual Israel, not earthly Israel. There are no longer any promise God made yet to be fulfilled - all have already been fulfilled. God divorced the nation of Israel for spiritual fornication. There is no longer any relationship between Him and Israel. We are informed below that all of the good things promised by God have already come to pass.

[Jos 23:14 KJV] 14 And, behold, this day I [am] going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, [and] not one thing hath failed thereof.

 

[rogerg]

Then believe what Jesus said

Not what you THINK he said.

backatcha

 

[Niki7]

The "him" is God. Did you not read in the verse I posted, that faith was reckoned to Abraham FOR righteousness. That means that by the faith reckoned to him, was Abraham made righteous - originating as faith of Christ, not as the faith of Abraham

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

There are none so blind as those who say they see and do not see. Jesus gave many warnings against false teachers and those who lead people astray, at one point calling those false leaders 'the blind leading the blind.' We find this in Matthew 15:14.

It is grammatically absurd to state that the 'him' is God as you declare. Where in scripture do you see God declared simply as a 'him'.

Nowhere.

Yet, you create an absurd and incorrect grammatical error and declare that the 'him' is God when all rules that apply to English declare that the 'him' in question is Abraham. In fact, there is no question. Unless you have zero comprehension of sentence structure...or deliberately wish to lead people astray because you are in a cult of some kind, there is no question that the 'him' refers to Abraham.

Why are you jumping from Hebrews to Philippians to construct this error you are so keen on presenting? Phil. 3:9 is not proof of your claim that God has become a nameless 'him' when He is not referenced as simply 'him' anywhere in scripture.

 

[MerSee]

The question of whether Jesus died on the cross for the just/elect/saved whose names are written in the Book of Life is a matter of theological debate. Some Christians believe that Jesus died only for the elect, meaning those who are predestined by God to be saved, while others believe that Jesus died for all people, regardless of their status as elect or non-elect. The debate centers around the interpretation of various biblical passages, such as John 3:16, which states that God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, and Romans 8:28-30, which speaks of those who love God being predestined for conformity to the image of his Son.

Those who believe that Jesus died only for the elect argue that his death was a perfect sacrifice that secured and guaranteed every saving blessing for them. They point to passages such as John 10:11, which speaks of Jesus laying down his life for the sheep, and 2 Timothy 2:10, which speaks of Paul enduring all things for the sake of those who are chosen. They argue that Jesus' death was limited in the sense that he knew for whom he was dying and that his death would ultimately benefit only the elect.

On the other hand, those who believe that Jesus died for all people argue that his death was a perfect sacrifice that can save anyone, but that it only benefits those who believe in Jesus. They point to passages such as Isaiah 53:6, which speaks of the Lord causing the iniquity of us all to fall on him, and 1 John 2:2, which speaks of Jesus being the propitiation for our sins and not just ours, but also for those of the whole world.

In conclusion, the question of whether Jesus died on the cross for the just/elect/saved whose names are written in the Book of Life is a matter of theological debate. Both sides of the debate have biblical support, and ultimately, the answer may depend on one's interpretation of various passages in the Bible.

J.

History will prove that, looking forward into eternity, only the elect correctly believe in Jesus Christ; the impostors will be exposed.

 

[MerSee]

Oh it would be effective to them, if they would just repent and believe

CORRECTLY!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't particularly care about convincing you. I was explaining something.

Well, I was wanting to be *convinced*... by someone who is claiming to be right, whereas others are wrong (in what they / we are presenting).

No, not pointing back to Gen 25:23. Gen 25:23 is subsequent to, and a continuation of, the allegory of Agar and Sarah, as stated in Galatians 4:24.

Well, *my* point had been, about how Romans 9 says "before they [specific dudes] were BORN / being not yet BORN," referring to "when" they were in "HER" (whom the LORD was SPEAKING to in Gen25:23) "WOMB" (a specific woman); and what He said ABOUT it ("TWO NATIONS are in thy womb"... and what that then means.)

My point was that in the Bible, God uses the earthly nation of Israel ( from Ishmael, the child of Agar - the bondwoman) symbolizing the unsaved: those under law;

Oh, it's worse than I thought.

--"the earthly nation of Israel" did not issue "FROM Ishmael" (there's your first mis-step!); rather, "Israel" is what the Lord NAMED "Jacob," and NOT PRIOR TO when Jacob himself existed (as an adult, even); It ['the nation of Israel'] has NOTHING TO DO with "Ishmael" and supposedly issuing "FROM" him (one must "READ [such an idea] INTO" scripture, to come to such a conclusion... it is not what scripture ITSELF informs us. [one of the major flaws of that particular system of 'theology'])

as opposed to the heavenly Jerusalem (Isaac, the child of Sarah the freewoman) the children of God's promise - symbolizing the saved to demonstrate His salvation plan, with each leg (including Jacob and Esau), going down through subsequent generations with that allegory continuing up until the end of time. This allegory also forms the foundation of Romans 9 and all of the Bible.

Again, the nation of Israel issued from "JACOB / ISRAEL" (not at all "from Ishmael," as you are suggesting).

Get that one point aligned properly, and more things will fall into [likewise correct] place.

So far, few of your points are (and which is why they remain "unconvincing"... even though I'm "all for" being convinced... by the "truth"!)

 

[Johann]

History will prove that, looking forward into eternity, only the elect correctly believe in Jesus Christ; the impostors will be exposed.

Our Lord Jesus Christ works in mysterious ways-some who think they are saved-might not Be saved-and those who feel lost and nor worthy of the Basileia of YHVH are the very ones to whom the kingdom belongs.

The prodigal son comes to mind and Pilgrims Progress.
Shalom
J.

 

[selahsays]

Jesus could not have died for this current world if it is going to be destroyed. Had Jesus died for it, because of that, it can't be destroyed -
there would be no judgment against it because by Jesus, it would be sinless.

When Jesus returns at the 7th trump, the millennium will begin. Those believing overcomers will go through the First Resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

- Revelation 20:6 (KJV)

You have to remember that the unelects refuse to believe all sound doctrine from Jesus Christ.

yep.

 

[Niki7]

You have to remember that the unelects refuse to believe all sound doctrine from Jesus Christ.

Your church does not teach sound doctrine. Your nameless church does not teach sound doctrine.

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3

You clearly have no understand of the meaning of the word elect nor do you understand that God has put out an invitation to the entire world to accept His Son. Those who accept Him have eternal life.

YOU condemn what you think are non-elect and think you speak what is true. BUT in v. 17 we see that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world . Yet, you continually condemn those you wrongly state God condemn even thought He does not condemn
anyone who believes and accepts. Those people are called RIGHTEOUS.

God has not made 2 classes of people....declared some righteous and some not righteous. EVERY PERSON BORN HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT CHRIST AND BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIM.

 

[Johann]

Your church does not teach sound doctrine. Your nameless church does not teach sound doctrine.

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3

You clearly have no understand of the meaning of the word elect nor do you understand that God has put out an invitation to the entire world to accept His Son. Those who accept Him have eternal life.

YOU condemn what you think are non-elect and think you speak what is true. BUT in v. 17 we see that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world . Yet, you continually condemn those you wrongly state God condemn even thought He does not condemn
anyone who believes and accepts. Those people are called RIGHTEOUS.

God has not made 2 classes of people....declared some righteous and some not righteous. EVERY PERSON BORN HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT CHRIST AND BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIM.

Calvin wants to close the door and way-Jesus is THE WAY-to a select few.
J.

 

[Niki7]

Only the elect are eternally saved; it is quite obvious.

Yes? Quite obvious? Are you talking to us from heaven then? That would be the only way that you can say who the elect are....that is, all those who come to salvation in Christ Jesus.

You don't know who is saved and who is not saved. You may know some in this forum because we can say with certainty that Christ is our Savior. You do not have access to the Lamb's Book of Life. So what is actually obvious, is that you continue to bloviate, spin circles and create meaningless posts to the point one wonders if you are here as a troll or truly involved in a cult of some kind which you refuse to name.

 

[Cameron143]

Calvin wants to close the door and way-Jesus is THE WAY-to a select few.
J.

Calvinists can believe heaven is populated by a number no man can number...Revelation 7:9.

 

[selahsays]

History will prove that, looking forward into eternity, only the elect correctly believe in Jesus Christ; the impostors will be exposed.

The thing is, not everyone is elect. There is also the free will group that, upon hearing the gospel, will accept Him as their personal Savior. Here they are—the free will group:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

- Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV)

 

[rogerg]

et, you create an absurd and incorrect grammatical error and declare that the 'him' is God when all rules that apply to English declare that the 'him' in question is Abraham. In fact, there is no question. Unless you have zero comprehension of sentence structure...or deliberately wish to lead people astray because you are in a cult of some kind, there is no question that the 'him' refers to Abraham.

It's absurd to you because you have no understanding of how to read Bible - you are blind to it, which is one reason why you come to so many unbiblical conclusions.
Scripture must be compared to scripture to come to correct interpretation.
There is no question that the Him is God because He alone is righteous and He alone who imputes His righteousness to unworthy man.
So, please map-out/diagram how you reached the conclusion that the "him" is not God using your superior grammatical skills.

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[Johann]

Yes? Quite obvious? Are you talking to us from heaven then? That would be the only way that you can say who the elect are....that is, all those who come to salvation in Christ Jesus.

You don't know who is saved and who is not saved. You may know some in this forum because we can say with certainty that Christ is our Savior. You do not have access to the Lamb's Book of Life. So what is actually obvious, is that you continue to bloviate, spin circles and create meaningless posts to the point one wonders if you are here as a troll or truly involved in a cult of some kind which you refuse to name.

Here are some scripture references that suggest that all can be saved:

2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

1 Timothy 2:3-4 - "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

Romans 10:13 - "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Acts 2:21 - "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people."

1 John 2:2 - "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

These verses suggest that God desires all people to be saved and that salvation is available to all who believe in Jesus Christ.

Shalom
J.

 

[Niki7]

Calvin wants to close the door and way-Jesus is THE WAY-to a select few.
J.

Well Calvin is dead, having condemned innocent believers in Christ to a terrible death.

We have to love the truth in order to follow the truth. The Bible declares that people are deceived when they do not love the truth.
That, is or should be, a very sobering fact.

9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, 12in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness. II Thessalonians 2

Further and even worse, God sends a delusion....not just a delusions but a VERY POWERFUL delusion so that they will believe a lie....like the one sent to Calvin who hated the truth and killed those who loved the truth.

You know, people just do not see or understand how serious false doctrines, false prophets and teachings are. They will send you to hell

 

[Johann]

Calvinists can believe heaven is populated by a number no man can number...Revelation 7:9.

I have to ask-are you Calvinistic in your worldview? Not that I have anything against Calvin.
Thanks @Cameron143
J.