The body as temple for holy spirit

[MaryM]

.. also for yourself.

A question for Christian men, do you value purity in the woman you marry? In this cynical age we live in, does it affect your decision to marry her if you find out your woman has had other partners?
The other way around, do you as a woman keep yourself for the man who you will marry and how much does it matter to you if you discover he has had other partners?
In short, has virginity got value these days in religion, culture and social terms.

Further thoughts: what if Jesus had not been born of a virgin? Worth noting, Mary didn't remain a virgin when she could have done. After all, she had none God Himself, yet she went on to produce several more children.

 

[hornetguy]

Why just the women? What about the expected virtue of men?

Not talking about you, but I see a lot of discussion about how women should be virtuous, while giving men a free pass.... what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander....

 

[Lynx]

.. also for yourself.

A question for Christian men, do you value purity in the woman you marry? In this cynical age we live in, does it affect your decision to marry her if you find out your woman has had other partners?
The other way around, do you as a woman keep yourself for the man who you will marry and how much does it matter to you if you discover he has had other partners?
In short, has virginity got value these days in religion, culture and social terms.

Further thoughts: what if Jesus had not been born of a virgin? Worth noting, Mary didn't remain a virgin when she could have done. After all, she had none God Himself, yet she went on to produce several more children.

You are asking questions that are not questions.

I mean... I consider purity important, but the way you are asking these questions makes it VERY clear which side of the issue you are on and exactly what your opinions are. To phrase them as questions is disingenious. And if you are trying to be disingenuous, frankly you could do it more subtly.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

Yes, I value purity. Save yourselves for your spouse as God intended. Things will go much better for you.

 

[Doodahdad]

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water so quickly…. In many cases, men or women who have had sex before marriage likely had it before they got saved… and if that’s the case, once they gave their life to Christ then all their sins are washed away, and God remembers them no more… and neither should we. Once a person gets saved, 1 John says they no longer have the desire to sin (not to say they aren’t tempted)… we just need to be careful that we don’t slip into judgement over someone just because in their previous life they had a roll in the hay..

 

[MaryM]

You are asking questions that are not questions.

I mean... I consider purity important, but the way you are asking these questions makes it VERY clear which side of the issue you are on and exactly what your opinions are. To phrase them as questions is disingenious. And if you are trying to be disingenuous, frankly you could do it more subtly.

You are right. I do think valuing your own body, men and women, is very important.

I wondered how a man feels say when he first likes a woman and whether those feelings are affected if he then finds out she has had lots of partners and vice versa. The answer to that in each case will reflect that person's self esteem and relationship with God surely?

 

[MaryM]

It appears Catholics believe Mary remained a virgin. This is not supported in the Bible as brothers and sisters are clearly referred to.
Actually, a question to consider is, why didn't she remain a virgin? After the incredible experience of bringing forth God Himself, it would have been logical.
It's worth shining a light on this. She was the most important woman who ever lived. The vessel by which Jesus came into this world. You might imagine her fulfillment to be total without going on to, we presume, marriage and further child bearing. Did Joseph marry her whilst pregnant with Jesus? What would she have told her family and her community about her eldest son? It is an interesting scenario.

 

[Eli1]

In regards to OP, yes i value purity and as @hornetguy said, i value it in myself first before i require it from others.
There are a lot of outwards things i don't prefer to see in my spouse or myself such as tattoos or piercings or drugs because i see them as a way of changing my natural body which i think it's perfect as it is because God designed it.
Since high school, my friends tempted me with drugs but i never took them and i thank God for it because i guess i was never interested in changing my body or mind in any way, i considered them a form of cheating reality. So i never did them myself and of course i expected the same thing from my wife who never did them either.

As far as the perpetual virginity of Mary goes, i can understand it well because i am from the region where a lot of traditions have made it into religion.
The role of the mother figure in the Mediterranean region is regarded very highly and only a mother can sometimes bring peace in a time of war or a time of insanity filled with hate. Only a mother is seen as someone by both sides as a figure who is respected.
So, this mindset which goes back to the ancient times of Greece and the Ottoman empire is something that has made itself into a tradition into modern-day Christianity.

A lot of Catholics in Italy or the nearby region understand this theologically, but culturally and practically they highly respect the role of the mother still.
And in all fairness this would do the western society a lot of good because the role of the mother would have been a major link to prevent the disintegration of the family in the west. And a strong family is something which benefits the larger society as a whole.

 

[MaryM]

In regards to OP, yes i value purity and as @hornetguy said, i value it in myself first before i require it from others.
There are a lot of outwards things i don't prefer to see in my spouse or myself such as tattoos or piercings or drugs because i see them as a way of changing my natural body which i think it's perfect as it is because God designed it.
Since high school, my friends tempted me with drugs but i never took them and i thank God for it because i guess i was never interested in changing my body or mind in any way, i considered them a form of cheating reality. So i never did them myself and of course i expected the same thing from my wife who never did them either.

As far as the perpetual virginity of Mary goes, i can understand it well because i am from the region where a lot of traditions have made it into religion.
The role of the mother figure in the Mediterranean region is regarded very highly and only a mother can sometimes bring peace in a time of war or a time of insanity filled with hate. Only a mother is seen as someone by both sides as a figure who is respected.
So, this mindset which goes back to the ancient times of Greece and the Ottoman empire is something that has made itself into a tradition into modern-day Christianity.

A lot of Catholics in Italy or the nearby region understand this theologically, but culturally and practically they highly respect the role of the mother still.
And in all fairness this would do the western society a lot of good because the role of the mother would have been a major link to prevent the disintegration of the family in the west. And a strong family is something which benefits the larger society as a whole.

Indeed the role of mother is powerful.
Men mostly value their mothers greatly. Whatever else they get up to.

 

[hornetguy]

Did Joseph marry her whilst pregnant with Jesus?

Yes. Scripture says so.

 

[Lynx]

In regards to OP, yes i value purity and as @hornetguy said, i value it in myself first before i require it from others.
There are a lot of outwards things i don't prefer to see in my spouse or myself such as tattoos or piercings or drugs because i see them as a way of changing my natural body which i think it's perfect as it is because God designed it.
Since high school, my friends tempted me with drugs but i never took them and i thank God for it because i guess i was never interested in changing my body or mind in any way, i considered them a form of cheating reality. So i never did them myself and of course i expected the same thing from my wife who never did them either.

As far as the perpetual virginity of Mary goes, i can understand it well because i am from the region where a lot of traditions have made it into religion.
The role of the mother figure in the Mediterranean region is regarded very highly and only a mother can sometimes bring peace in a time of war or a time of insanity filled with hate. Only a mother is seen as someone by both sides as a figure who is respected.
So, this mindset which goes back to the ancient times of Greece and the Ottoman empire is something that has made itself into a tradition into modern-day Christianity.

A lot of Catholics in Italy or the nearby region understand this theologically, but culturally and practically they highly respect the role of the mother still.
And in all fairness this would do the western society a lot of good because the role of the mother would have been a major link to prevent the disintegration of the family in the west. And a strong family is something which benefits the larger society as a whole.

I dunno... I know some women who are both mothers and crazier than June bugs.

 

[MaryM]

I dunno... I know some women who are both mothers and crazier than June bugs.

Unfit.

 

[Eli1]

I dunno... I know some women who are both mothers and crazier than June bugs.

There's a lot to be said here in regards to cultural differences alone.
Without even involving Christianity or Faith at all.
The family unit that i grew up with was not the way it was because of Christianity, in fact it predates Christianity. It was the way it was because that's how the culture is.
This is why a lot of those cultural traditions have made it into Christianity, with the whole theory of the perpetual virginity of Saint Mary as an example.

But the whole "cultural shock" that i mentioned somewhere else was evident to me in many aspects of life in U.S.
In college or high school i saw pregnant girls for example. This was very shocking to me because this never happened when i came from.
So when you look at things historically here in US, they are tied to Puritans who want to implement a version of Christianity which is called "Nationalistic Christianity" in today's language, as it's mentioned on another thread here. This is no different than Islam in my view because if you try to force rules into a population, they will rebel against those rules in-principle or in-spite. And this creates extremes, where in a lot of cases you need a lot more balance.
This is also evident in how people even view commercials or shows about Christianity or simple day to day processes of life.

In another topic i also mentioned drinking of teens under 21. In US, this is immediately seen as a bad thing or a drunk family. But elsewhere it's seen as a normal thing because you're treating the teenager as an adult and you integrate him/her into the society early by providing a drink as an adult in restaurants or elsewhere where alcohol is sold.
If you treat him as a kid until they're 21 while asking them to vote at 18 or die for their country at 18, they will then abuse alcohol instead of sharing a drink for friendship and not to get drunk.
So an extreme measure produces and extreme response, but a balanced measure creates a more balanced individual.

Don't get me wrong, i've met many families with this balanced mindset in US but they're very rare. Families where there are 3 generations living under one roof and where they respect their elders, mothers and fathers and are raised responsibly even sharing a glass of wine with a 15 year old for a new year's eve or another event.
But they're rare.

 

[MaryM]

There's a lot to be said here in regards to cultural differences alone.
Without even involving Christianity or Faith at all.
The family unit that i grew up with was not the way it was because of Christianity, in fact it predates Christianity. It was the way it was because that's how the culture is.
This is why a lot of those cultural traditions have made it into Christianity, with the whole theory of the perpetual virginity of Saint Mary as an example.

But the whole "cultural shock" that i mentioned somewhere else was evident to me in many aspects of life in U.S.
In college or high school i saw pregnant girls for example. This was very shocking to me because this never happened when i came from.
So when you look at things historically here in US, they are tied to Puritans who want to implement a version of Christianity which is called "Nationalistic Christianity" in today's language, as it's mentioned on another thread here. This is no different than Islam in my view because if you try to force rules into a population, they will rebel against those rules in-principle or in-spite. And this creates extremes, where in a lot of cases you need a lot more balance.
This is also evident in how people even view commercials or shows about Christianity or simple day to day processes of life.

In another topic i also mentioned drinking of teens under 21. In US, this is immediately seen as a bad thing or a drunk family. But elsewhere it's seen as a normal thing because you're treating the teenager as an adult and you integrate him/her into the society early by providing a drink as an adult in restaurants or elsewhere where alcohol is sold.
If you treat him as a kid until they're 21 while asking them to vote at 18 or die for their country at 18, they will then abuse alcohol instead of sharing a drink for friendship and not to get drunk.
So an extreme measure produces and extreme response, but a balanced measure creates a more balanced individual.

Don't get me wrong, i've met many families with this balanced mindset in US but they're very rare. Families where there are 3 generations living under one roof and where they respect their elders, mothers and fathers and are raised responsibly even sharing a glass of wine with a 15 year old for a new year's eve or another event.
But they're rare.

I take on board all you say. However, there is nothing to be proud of in a young unmarried, pregnant girl. It's just a futile problematic situation usually. Yet it's the way things are, no values left.

 

[MaryM]

Why just the women? What about the expected virtue of men?

Not talking about you, but I see a lot of discussion about how women should be virtuous, while giving men a free pass.... what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander....

It is true that the view of men having lots of women is regarded differently from the other way around. Unfair but so much is in life.

 

[MaryM]

So, Mary mother of God. It is interesting that the womb which bore Jesus Christ, went on to bring forth others.
The Catholics believe in Mary remaining an eternal virgin but obviously that was not the case. These matters are interesting, to me.

 

[MaryM]

Further, there is little information about Christ's family, his siblings,(apart from James). They must have been aware their oldest brother was the son of God. After all, thousands heard His preachings and were healed. When He returned to His hometown, the people largely rejected Him.
Nothing at all is known of Joseph their father, who is absent at the crucifixion, as are most of his siblings. Only Mary was there.

 

[hornetguy]

Some have speculated, and it is 100% speculation, that perhaps Joseph had died by that time. He was likely quite a bit older than Mary, as that was a custom back then.... older men being betrothed to much younger women.

 

[MaryM]

Some have speculated, and it is 100% speculation, that perhaps Joseph had died by that time. He was likely quite a bit older than Mary, as that was a custom back then.... older men being betrothed to much younger women.

I have always imagined him to be young like Mary is likely to have been. Thus he wouldn't have been cynical. We can but conjecture.

 

[EszterBH]

.. also for yourself.

A question for Christian men, do you value purity in the woman you marry? In this cynical age we live in, does it affect your decision to marry her if you find out your woman has had other partners?
The other way around, do you as a woman keep yourself for the man who you will marry and how much does it matter to you if you discover he has had other partners?
In short, has virginity got value these days in religion, culture and social terms.

Further thoughts: what if Jesus had not been born of a virgin? Worth noting, Mary didn't remain a virgin when she could have done. After all, she had none God Himself, yet she went on to produce several more children.

Im a woman and yes Im keeping myself, and I wouldnt like it if my man had other partners, especially casual. I could mary a man if he only had stable relationships in the past and proved to be repentant of his actions, but if he had casual ones its a no way for me.