What if you die before water baptism?

[Lafftur]

so did you receive any gifts afterwards

I received the Gift of Salvation at 6 years old and immediately had a great love for the Holy Bible - God's Word.

Then, I was water baptized at 15 years old in a bathtub by my mom and aunt.

Then, at the age of 25 I received the Holy Spirit Baptism and began to speak in tongues and immediately was in spiritual warfare over my little sister that lived across town. The Spirit took me to her in the spirit and I saw the demons attacking her and the Lord rose up inside me... and the The Lord delivered her. I saw her 3 days later and told her all that I saw and she confirmed all was true... even what she was wearing.

 

[Lafftur]

so did you receive any gifts afterwards

How about you, @Thunderrr-mental ? Any gifts from Jesus Christ?

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus wanted everyone baptized in the Spirit, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus knew they would be confused in the beginning, assuming He meant water baptism.
But, eventually... after having water baptized many (as he had done prior to the Church age) Peter "finally" caught on
that its about Spirit baptism, no longer water as they had always done on a regular basis.

Take note! Read how Peter let us know that he had forgotten about how Spirit was to replace "water" baptism!
He was first told about it in Acts 1:4-5 and had forgotten...

Acts 11:15-17​

​

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. ​

Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized ​

with the Holy Spirit.’ So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord ​

Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”​

Yes! Many today are making the same kind of mistake that Peter had!
Its embarrassing for them, and many refuse to be corrected.


grace and peace .

The only thing Peter could have done to withstand God AFTER seeing them filled with the Holy Ghost was to withhold baptizing them in water. "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" Acts 11:17

If Peter neglected to command the group to be baptized He would be going against the purposes of God. Peter was well aware that obedience to water baptism was for remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) He understood God opened the door of salvation to Cornelius and the others after seeing God fill them with His Spirit. So, it was at that point that Peter commanded the group to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48)

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

How about you, @Thunderrr-mental ? Any gifts from Jesus Christ?

How about you, @Thunderrr-mental ? Any gifts from Jesus Christ?

well Pretty much I don't like to boast in my infirmities,..

However I do seem to be blessed with discernment, and I have a gift of seeing into future upto one year ahead.

I have been baptised in water 3 times.

first time was a baby second time was by mum at 15, third time.was at church 2 years ago.

but strangely I really only felt I had a clear conscience 2 years ago after water baptism.

all tho I can't put my finger on that completely. But something happened after my last baptism in water.

 

[Wansvic]

.


Notice the inability of some to see

Verse 47 in Acts chapter 10.

47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before water baptism and therefore was saved before water baptism.

It is funny those who use these verses and blinded by the very text that which says differently than they believe or think.

Both being indwelt with the Holy Ghost, and having one's sin remitted in obedience to water baptism are essential to the NT rebirth. Scripture confirms this in all detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Lafftur]

well Pretty much I don't like to boast in my infirmities,..

However I do seem to be blessed with discernment, and I have a gift of seeing into future upto one year ahead.

I have been baptised in water 3 times.

first time was a baby second time was by mum at 15, third time.was at church 2 years ago.

but strangely I really only felt I had a clear conscience 2 years ago after water baptism.

all tho I can't put my finger on that completely. But something happened after my last baptism in water.

That's wonderful! Sounds like the Lord is drawing you to Him. Stay in the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit for Truth and understanding of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit will teach you, lead, comfort, counsel, guide, correct and instruct us as we mature in Christ.

Romans 12 - the renewing of our minds with the Word of God transforms us so that we are not conformed to this world which is contrary to God. Just remember, the Holy Spirit is the Revealer of Truth - He is the Spirit of Truth.

 

[Wansvic]

.


Notice the inability of some to see

Verse 47 in Acts chapter 10.

47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before water baptism and therefore was saved before water baptism.

It is funny those who use these verses and blinded by the very text that which says differently than they believe or think.

Note that to forbid means NOT ALLOW. Peter's question means is their anyone here willing to stand in the way of these people being baptized and having their sins remitted? (Acts 2:38, Luke 24:47, etc.) Even though they're Gentiles clearly God has made it clear the way of salvation is now open to them too.

 

[Wansvic]

They suffer the same way of blindness as "good Catholics" who insist upon praying to Mary because that is what they were brought up to believe..

Following denominational beliefs is what steers people wrong. It is the word of God when believed and obeyed that opens eyes. (John 3:3-5)

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That's wonderful! Sounds like the Lord is drawing you to Him. Stay in the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit for Truth and understanding of the scriptures. The Holy Spirit will teach you, lead, comfort, counsel, guide, correct and instruct us as we mature in Christ.

Romans 12 - the renewing of our minds with the Word of God transforms us so that we are not conformed to this world which is contrary to God. Just remember, the Holy Spirit is the Revealer of Truth - He is the Spirit of Truth.

I have np with this advice,

You mentioned you received baptism of the holy spirit, I'm interested to know do you see recieving the holy spirit being saved, and baptism of the holy spirit as separate events.

 

[Wansvic]

Even John the Baptist said that water would stop...


“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after
me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will
baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3;11


John the Baptist did not say....

He will baptize you with water and also the Holy Spirit and fire."

You are wrong. The scripture you reference says nothing about water baptism coming to an end.

 

[Cameron143]

nope if his blood washed away everyone's sins at the cross, there would be no need for anyone to confess there sins before the lord 😊

Confession is for restoration of relationship. Sin doesn't remove us from relationship with God once we are saved; it removes us from fellowship. We can again renew the blessings of the relationship as we confess.

 

[Wansvic]

That's the standard "cessationist work around. Biblically, the Holy Spirit INDWELLED at John 20:22, with the effect noted at Luke 24:45. The EFFECT of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit would be the "Opening of their understanding".

And Jesus told the Disciples who had already been INFILLED 50 days previously, to hang in Jerusalem for the "Enduement (clothing) w2ith power at Acts 2:4.

It still works the same today.

Jesus stated the Holy Ghost could not be received until He departed.

To suggest the Holy Ghost must be received in order to effect one's understanding is disputed elsewhere. There was no mention of the two men on the road to Emmaus receiving the Holy Ghost prior to Jesus opening their understanding. (Luke 24:13-32)

 

[Wansvic]

...
WRONG - Pentecost was when the Holy Spirit came UPON THEM. He was already IN them from John 20:22.
....

[/QUOTE]

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

 

[Lafftur]

I have np with this advice,

You mentioned you received baptism of the holy spirit, I'm interested to know do you see recieving the holy spirit being saved, and baptism of the holy spirit as separate events.

For me, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit happened later but, I do believe the Sealing and Baptism with the Holy Spirit can happen at the same time. It did with the household of Cornelius and Acts 19 it happened at two different events when Paul asked some believers if they had received the baptism with the Holy Spirit since they believed and they said no, they only knew of the water baptism of John. So he prayed for them and they received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I do believe that ALL Believers receive the Holy Spirit when they receive Jesus Christ and are sealed but, we need to be endued with power by the Holy Spirit to be an effective witness for Jesus Christ.

I like to explain it as a Cell Phone.... When I buy a cell phone, it belongs to me but it doesn't work until it is "activated" with power. Once activated, it can send and receive messages, videos, I can talk to someone.... much like hear God's Voice, receive messages, receive visions and dreams... but, like a cell phone, I have to plug in and keep my battery charged... by taking time to go away to a quiet place and be still with God and commune with Him - The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

For me, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit happened later but, I do believe the Sealing and Baptism with the Holy Spirit can happen at the same time. It did with the household of Cornelius and Acts 19 it happened at two different events when Paul asked some believers if they had received the baptism with the Holy Spirit since they believed and they said no, they only knew of the water baptism of John. So he prayed for them and they received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I do believe that ALL Believers receive the Holy Spirit when they receive Jesus Christ and are sealed but, we need to be endued with power by the Holy Spirit to be an effective witness for Jesus Christ.

I like to explain it as a Cell Phone.... When I buy a cell phone, it belongs to me but it doesn't work until it is "activated" with power. Once activated, it can send and receive messages, videos, I can talk to someone.... much like hear God's Voice, receive messages, receive visions and dreams... but, like a cell phone, I have to plug in and keep my battery charged... by taking time to go away to a quiet place and be still with God and commune with Him - The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

your talking about this verse
John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

It's obviously saying something happens after water baptism


Because they spoke in tongues is this saying they where saved,

Because if you read acts 10 it's flipped.

Acts 10:47-48
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48
Acts 10:47-48
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.

They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48

So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.


are the people here who are saved here in acts 10, are also the people who have spoke in tongues at pentacost.

i believe they are, but then there ordered to be baptised in the lord Jesus Christ after speaking in tongues

going back to acts 19 it's flipped, they get baptised in water in the names Jesus Christ, and then speak in tongues.

it looks like something else must happen after speaking in tongues regarding recieving more gifts.

 

[Genez]

The only thing Peter could have done to withstand God AFTER seeing them filled with the Holy Ghost was to withhold baptizing them in water. "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" Acts 11:17

If Peter neglected to command the group to be baptized He would be going against the purposes of God. Peter was well aware that obedience to water baptism was for remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) He understood God opened the door of salvation to Cornelius and the others after seeing God fill them with His Spirit. So, it was at that point that Peter commanded the group to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48)

Many have yet to learn that Peter made some stupid mistakes in his early years of leadership!
he made quite a few.... Even the great Paul was needing correction at least once...

Galatians 2:11-13​

​

Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed; ​

for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, ​

he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of ​

the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.​

The Bible recorded some of Peter's mistakes to tell us not to feel bad when we find our self
doing something that is an error. That we should realize it can happen to anyone of us.


grace and peace ..............

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Confession is for restoration of relationship. Sin doesn't remove us from relationship with God once we are saved; it removes us from fellowship. We can again renew the blessings of the relationship as we confess.

I believe it's a little bit more complicated than Just saying he washed away the sins of the whole world.



John 1:7

English Standard Version



7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Lafftur]

your talking about this verse
John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

It's obviously saying something happens after water baptism


Because they spoke in tongues is this saying they where saved,

Because if you read acts 10 it's flipped.

Acts 10:47-48
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48
Acts 10:47-48
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.

They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48

So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.


are the people here who are saved there in acts 10, are also the people who have spoke in tongues at pentacost.

i believe they are, but then there ordered to be baptised in the lord Jesus Christ after speaking in tongues

going back to acts 19 it's flipped, they get baptised in water in the names Jesus Christ, and then speak in tongues.

it looks like something else must happen after speaking in tongues regarding recieving more gifts.

You are correct that Acts 10 (Household of Cornelius) and Acts 19 (Paul and Believers) is "flipped" which means God wants all Believers to be water baptized but Salvation and the Holy Spirit baptism is NOT dependent on the timing of water baptism.

Acts 10 - Gentile Believers received Holy Spirit baptism then, water baptism.
Acts 19 - Believers that were NOT at Pentacost believed in Jesus Christ and were water baptized but, had not received the Holy Spirit baptism yet... until Paul layed his hands on them and prayed.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Many have yet to learn that Peter made some stupid mistakes in his early years of leadership!
he made quite a few.... Even the great Paul was needing correction at least once...

Galatians 2:11-13​

​

Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed; ​

for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, ​

he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of ​

the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.​

The Bible recorded some of Peter's mistakes to tell us not to feel bad when we find our self
doing something that is an error. That we should realize it can happen to anyone of us.


grace and peace ..............

peter became saint Peter after the cross and acts 10 is spoken after the cross 😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You are correct that Acts 10 (Household of Cornelius) and Acts 19 (Paul and Believers) is "flipped" which means God wants all Believers to be water baptized but Salvation and the Holy Spirit baptism is NOT dependent on the timing of water baptism.

Acts 10 - Gentile Believers received Holy Spirit baptism then, water baptism.
Acts 19 - Believers that were NOT at Pentacost believed in Jesus Christ and were water baptized but, had not received the Holy Spirit baptism yet... until Paul layed his hands on them and prayed.

Thankyou ❤️ for the agreement, in one sense

I wouldn't argue that its dependant on salvation, but I would argue it's dependant on recieving more gifts 😊 like becoming a full pint glass