Under a new covenant

[Thunderrr-mental]

What does it mean to be under a new covenant.

Does it mean Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer. or should it mean, in Jesus there is no law but love.

I see Gods law as knowing how to give correct Judgement for any situation, but how can I judge correctly if I don't know it.

As even love must be Judged fairly.

I think there must be something, more than the meaning of Jesus sayin I have come to a abolish the law, but when he said I have come to fulfill it. What did he mean by I have come to abolish it.

Did he mean something else, as according to the raptured in the head people, Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron, according to the once saved always saved believers, I've also heard them preach Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron.

But yet ruling with a rod of iron would be laying down the law.

I mean am I going left or right, up or down. Backwards or reverse.

It should not be this complicated should it.

The return of the lord is described as the day of the lord. Should not everyone have a day of the lord.

Should not a day of the lord be like a thousand years.

 

[Magenta]

I think there must be something, more than the meaning of Jesus sayin I have come to a abolish
the law, but when he said I have come to fulfill it. What did he mean by I have come to abolish it.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law. The law remains to condemn those not saved by grace through
faith in His shed righteous blood, to be reconciled to God, attain to life ever after, and escape the second death.

 

[Aaron56]

What does it mean to be under a new covenant.

Does it mean Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer. or should it mean, in Jesus there is no law but love.

I see Gods law as knowing how to give correct Judgement for any situation, but how can I judge correctly if I don't know it.

As even love must be Judged fairly.

I think there must be something, more than the meaning of Jesus sayin I have come to a abolish the law, but when he said I have come to fulfill it. What did he mean by I have come to abolish it.

Did he mean something else, as according to the raptured in the head people, Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron, according to the once saved always saved believers, I've also heard them preach Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron.

But yet ruling with a rod of iron would be laying down the law.

I mean am I going left or right, up or down. Backwards or reverse.

It should not be this complicated should it.

The return of the lord is described as the day of the lord. Should not everyone have a day of the lord.

Should not a day of the lord be like a thousand years.

After all the history of the Jews after Sinai, we know, through Paul, that the Law was given for one primary purpose: to protect the people through whom Christ would come.

"Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

After all the history of the Jews after Sinai, we know, through Paul, that the Law was given for one primary purpose: to protect the people through whom Christ would come.

"Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

so is it,.you only see Jesus as fulfilling the law, when he said I have come to fulfill it, and it can't possibly mean any thing else.

It could be, he came to abolish the law in the sense of no one could live up to it.



But I look at it slightly different, I look at it as Jesus coming to fulfill the law in every believer, because they can't do it for themselves. Which makes the law very much still holy and alive.

There may also be a judgement to come for Christians according to Isiah 2.4 which is supported by Jesus coming to bring a sword, and not peace in mathew.

So if Jesus says he has not come to bring peace, then we must be under a covenant that has judgement to come for all who enter into it.

He came to save the world, and as Christians, the responsibility is to help save the world, which is far from fulfilled,

I would say part of that fulfillment is to love your enemy, which would be a requirement and a law that's need fulfillment, and knowledge of the law.

But how long will it be before God brings Judgement to Christians like he has with all others who have disobeyed any other covenant, he has brought onto existence.

Or who's to say Isiah 2.4 isn't a part of that judgement or fulfilment.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law. The law remains to condemn those not saved by grace through
faith in His shed righteous blood, to be reconciled to God, attain to life ever after, and escape the second death.

there is passage somewhere and I can't remember but is on the Lines of ending to the law,

But that's all it says..

I can't find it at the moment,

But can it possibly mean it's and end to it, as in the way people was accustomed to it.

But besides this surly being under a new covenant is more of a law than being under the law it's self

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Here you go I've found it @Magenta

Romans 10:4

ESVFor Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So do I take This that rightouseness is now a fulfillment of the law.

So for Christians who do not show righteousness of the law, then it has not been fulfilled by Jesus in the believer

 

[Soyeong]

What does it mean to be under a new covenant.

Does it mean Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer. or should it mean, in Jesus there is no law but love.

I see Gods law as knowing how to give correct Judgement for any situation, but how can I judge correctly if I don't know it.

As even love must be Judged fairly.

I think there must be something, more than the meaning of Jesus sayin I have come to a abolish the law, but when he said I have come to fulfill it. What did he mean by I have come to abolish it.

Did he mean something else, as according to the raptured in the head people, Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron, according to the once saved always saved believers, I've also heard them preach Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron.

But yet ruling with a rod of iron would be laying down the law.

I mean am I going left or right, up or down. Backwards or reverse.

It should not be this complicated should it.

The return of the lord is described as the day of the lord. Should not everyone have a day of the lord.

Should not a day of the lord be like a thousand years.

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to do that. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest on the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.

Here you go I've found it @Magenta

Romans 10:4

ESVFor Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So do I take This that rightouseness is now a fulfillment of the law.

So for Christians who do not show righteousness of the law, then it has not been fulfilled by Jesus in the believer

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in his way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim, which is the basis of the New Covenant, in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, in regard to saying that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite.

Moreover, to interpret Romans 10:4 as Jesus ending God's law is to say that he lied about not coming to abolish it and to disregard his warning. Likewise, in Romans 3:31, Paul confirmed that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so that interpretation would mean that Paul was contradicting himself. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be abolished without first abolishing God.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).
.

thanks for the reply, I've not forgot what else you've said,.but for now I'll quote you on this


putting the law in our minds and writing them on our hearts. It's interesting this is wrote by the hebrews, was this wrote after Christ, as I'm lead to believe the hebrews where saved

so obviously there is a difference here, is it the case the laws stay on our minds, because here we see there not being wrote there.

as for the mosaic law, there, when ever I read them I can't remember them,.and when I read them all, I find laws I've never heard before.

should we not know them, or is it when we break one, then we know ?

say like eating food that we don't bless, like do you ever feal a sense of conviction for not saying grace before eating.

BUt then Jesus says its not what goes into man that defiles him, it's what comes out of him that defiles him.

so what would be wrong with eating halal meat, and why should halal meat be any different to kosher meat.

 

[Aaron56]

so is it,.you only see Jesus as fulfilling the law, when he said I have come to fulfill it, and it can't possibly mean any thing else.

It could be, he came to abolish the law in the sense of no one could live up to it.



But I look at it slightly different, I look at it as Jesus coming to fulfill the law in every believer, because they can't do it for themselves. Which makes the law very much still holy and alive.

There may also be a judgement to come for Christians according to Isiah 2.4 which is supported by Jesus coming to bring a sword, and not peace in mathew.

So if Jesus says he has not come to bring peace, then we must be under a covenant that has judgement to come for all who enter into it.

He came to save the world, and as Christians, the responsibility is to help save the world, which is far from fulfilled,

I would say part of that fulfillment is to love your enemy, which would be a requirement and a law that's need fulfillment, and knowledge of the law.

But how long will it be before God brings Judgement to Christians like he has with all others who have disobeyed any other covenant, he has brought onto existence.

Or who's to say Isiah 2.4 isn't a part of that judgement or fulfilment.

But there are two conditions of the law
1. It was a consequence of trespasses. The promises given to Abraham were greater than and exempt from the law.
2. The law was given until the Seed, who is Christ, arrived. The law was used to make men desperate for the Messiah who would save them.

The promises, inherited by faith, puts the spirit of Christ, the same Spirit alive with Father and Son before the world was made, into all who believe. By this Spirit we become one with the Son. Through chastening by our Father we demonstrate His life, not our own, through our bodies: our words and our conduct. By this we actually “put on Christ” as our attire. The law requires “as much as we can in our own strength”. The Spirit in us, by promise through faith, declares we are of Him. That is how we can rest in our fellowship, our sameness, with God the Father.

 

[Komentaja]

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to do that. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest on the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.


In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in his way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim, which is the basis of the New Covenant, in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, in regard to saying that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite.

Moreover, to interpret Romans 10:4 as Jesus ending God's law is to say that he lied about not coming to abolish it and to disregard his warning. Likewise, in Romans 3:31, Paul confirmed that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so that interpretation would mean that Paul was contradicting himself. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be abolished without first abolishing God.

What parts of the law you believe apply still? We know from Paul's writings and Acts 15 that circumcision was done away with and if you are uncircumcised you are to remain so, why would he say that if all of the torah was applicable?

 

[Magenta]

Here you go I've found it @Magenta

Romans 10:4

ESVFor Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So do I take This that rightouseness is now a fulfillment of the law.

So for Christians who do not show righteousness of the law, then it has not been fulfilled by Jesus in the believer

Christ is the end of the law for those who believe because we are covered/clothed in HIS righteousness.

The law remains to condemn those who do not believe. In fact they are condemned already.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 10:4

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

But there are two conditions of the law
1. It was a consequence of trespasses. The promises given to Abraham were greater than and exempt from the law.
2. The law was given until the Seed, who is Christ, arrived. The law was used to make men desperate for the Messiah who would save them.

The promises, inherited by faith, puts the spirit of Christ, the same Spirit alive with Father and Son before the world was made, into all who believe. By this Spirit we become one with the Son. Through chastening by our Father we demonstrate His life, not our own, through our bodies: our words and our conduct. By this we actually “put on Christ” as our attire. The law requires “as much as we can in our own strength”. The Spirit in us, by promise through faith, declares we are of Him. That is how we can rest in our fellowship, our sameness, with God the Father.

well I was speaking of Isaiah 2.4 as a judgement to come for all Christians to because of this also



Matthew 12:36

English Standard Version



36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

This sounds like Jesus speaking.

Then if we look at Isaiah 2.4

Isaiah 2:4 NIV
He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Then if we look at Mathew


Matthew 10:34-36

English Standard Version



Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

So we are to be judged for every word we speak, then this must mean, Christians have been circumcised in the heart.

Because the tongue speaks what the heart is fond of.

So If where not displaying the righteous requirements of what lord requires under his covenant, then what covenant are you under ?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

What parts of the law you believe apply still? We know from Paul's writings and Acts 15 that circumcision was done away with and if you are uncircumcised you are to remain so, why would he say that if all of the torah was applicable?

how is circumcision done away with, Paul states circumcision of the heart is by the spirit, and if we look at ephesians 6, the sword is word of the spirit.

Then if we look at Mathew it indicates circumcision of the heart also, because Jesus tells his mother a sword will pearce your heart.
And Jesus says I have not come to bring peace but a sword.

So the sword he brings is circumcision of the heart.

Where by you will be judged for every word you say

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Christ is the end of the law for those who believe because we are covered/clothed in HIS righteousness.

The law remains to condemn those who do not believe. In fact they are condemned already.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 10:4

I have a feeling this scripture only applies to a covenant set for the Christians. As the Christians have been given a circumcision of the heart, which means they are not to practice the law the same as the Jews,

But the last part is the righteousness of the law must be shown in the Christians. Which would be the law being fulfilled in the Christian.

Which is to be accountable for every word a Christian speaks.

But still the covenant of of Abraham still stands.

As does the covenant of Isaac.

As does the covenant of Jacob.

Your either under Jewish covenant a gentile covenant or a Hebrew covenant.

The Hebrew is saved and has been Judged.

The Hebrew is the covenant of Abraham for both both hebrews and Arabs.

The Jew is the covent of Jacob the Israelites and possibly the unsaved Arab to

The gentile is the covenant of Christ.

The covenant of Jacob is the Israelites

And the covenant of Christ and Jacob where both brought by the Hebrew and the Arab, who where both saved Arab and saved Hebrew.

They have brought the covenant to the Jew and the gentile.

Neither have been fulfilled yet and will face the day of the lord.

This is my view point.

 

[Komentaja]

how is circumcision done away with, Paul states circumcision of the heart is by the spirit, and if we look at ephesians 6, the sword is word of the spirit.

Then if we look at Mathew it indicates circumcision of the heart also, because Jesus tells his mother a sword will pearce your heart.
And Jesus says I have not come to bring peace but a sword.

So the sword he brings is circumcision of the heart.

Where by you will be judged for every word you say

Crcumcision in the flesh is done away with.

Circumcision of the heart is not a new thing in the New Testament, its spoken of in the Tanakh as well:

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Crcumcision in the flesh is done away with.

Circumcision of the heart is not a new thing in the New Testament, its spoken of in the Tanakh as well:

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem

yes it was a covenant set for the Hebrews the true inhabitants of the line of Judah are the hebrews.

What your expressing is it means something that applies to all covenants and it does not.

 

[Aaron56]

Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

I have experienced this in my own life, have you not?

 

[Aaron56]

I have a feeling this scripture only applies to a covenant set for the Christians. As the Christians have been given a circumcision of the heart, which means they are not to practice the law the same as the Jews,

But the last part is the righteousness of the law must be shown in the Christians. Which would be the law being fulfilled in the Christian.

Which is to be accountable for every word a Christian speaks.

But still the covenant of of Abraham still stands.

As does the covenant of Isaac.

As does the covenant of Jacob.

Your either under Jewish covenant a gentile covenant or a Hebrew covenant.

The Hebrew is saved and has been Judged.

The Hebrew is the covenant of Abraham for both both hebrews and Arabs.

The Jew is the covent of Jacob the Israelites and possibly the unsaved Arab to

The gentile is the covenant of Christ.

The covenant of Jacob is the Israelites

And the covenant of Christ and Jacob where both brought by the Hebrew and the Arab, who where both saved Arab and saved Hebrew.

They have brought the covenant to the Jew and the gentile.

Neither have been fulfilled yet and will face the day of the lord.

This is my view point.

For God to keep His word, the Messiah had to come through the lineage of Abraham. So, because the Jews did not enter into the presence of God at Sinai (the trespasses), God gave them the Law. The Law set boundaries on sin so that not all sin would equal the death of the sinner. Sacrifices could be made in the stead of the guilty. Even so, every order of the Law pointed to the One would would come to save the nation.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I have experienced this in my own life, have you not?

For God to keep His word, the Messiah had to come through the lineage of Abraham. So, because the Jews did not enter into the presence of God at Sinai (the trespasses), God gave them the Law. The Law set boundaries on sin so that not all sin would equal the death of the sinner. Sacrifices could be made in the stead of the guilty. Even so, every order of the Law pointed to the One would would come to save the nation.

Christians have to ask for forgiveness of trespasses to, and forgive those trespasses of others, which should be done in daily prayer, at the very least.

So is there any difference really.

Besides this by the looks of It a judgement has already passed and the tombs where opened and the saints where resurrected

To me this would be the saved hebrews who had circumcision of the heart which makes there covenant fulfilled, but not the covenant of Jacob or the covenant of Christ,

As the gentiles do not respect the law at all

But the hebrew circumcision was fulfilled in the sense they would have acted accordingly.

So just because circumcision of the hearts happens, it should not mean the law has been fulfilled in you,

This is where I'm going with my view 😊

 

[vassal]

What does it mean to be under a new covenant.

Does it mean Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer. or should it mean, in Jesus there is no law but love.

I see Gods law as knowing how to give correct Judgement for any situation, but how can I judge correctly if I don't know it.

As even love must be Judged fairly.

I think there must be something, more than the meaning of Jesus sayin I have come to a abolish the law, but when he said I have come to fulfill it. What did he mean by I have come to abolish it.

Did he mean something else, as according to the raptured in the head people, Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron, according to the once saved always saved believers, I've also heard them preach Jesus will come back to rule with a rod of iron.

But yet ruling with a rod of iron would be laying down the law.

I mean am I going left or right, up or down. Backwards or reverse.

It should not be this complicated should it.

The return of the lord is described as the day of the lord. Should not everyone have a day of the lord.

Should not a day of the lord be like a thousand years.

Hello Thunder,

Your questions are quite legitimate and I understand why as many say different things. There are too many doctrines but you know there can only be one, there is one GOD and one gospel, the only message or Gospel that matters is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I urge you to follow no other than our Messiah the son of GOD himself.

Jesus fulfilled the law ( by obeying all of it, perfectly ) and the prophets ( who wrote about him in the prophecies of the O.T.)
The 10 commandments ( were given by GOD) for any who do his will, Jews and gentiles alike, these were written by the hand of GOD and put inside the ARK OF THE COVENANT. the rest called the law of MOSES are mostly for Israel they contain many things and many no longer apply today as for example the ceremonies for the Levites, sacrifices etc...

These Law were put in the side of the ARK of the covenant but not INSIDE, hence the important distinction. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law; ( see Matthew 5:17) but to fulfill. He did so perfectly, he was teaching the law ( commandments) and magnified it and explained in details how to follow it from the heart with love not in the hypocrite fashions of the pharisees. Jesus never abolished the law on the contrary. The 10 commandments are still valid today, they will never pass away! we better get used to it. this is why he came, how are we to know sin if we do not follow simple commandments.
Many think we are under a new covenant but it is untrue, the new covenant says"" I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. "" you need to read Jer 30 and 31 for full context, the new covenant will be in effect in the end times after the second advent of Christ and the restoration of Israel and Judah. so many people refuse to obey the commandments how then can we say we are under a new covenant that the lord would write in out minds forever, if we refuse to obey?

Jer 31:31 Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the Lord, who giveth the sun for the light of the day, the order of the moon and of the stars, for the light of the night: who stirreth up the sea, and the waves thereof roar, the Lord of hosts is his name.
Jer 31:36 If these ordinances shall fail before me, saith the Lord: then also the seed of Israel shall fail, so as not to be a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the Lord: If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I also will cast away all the seed of Israel, for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Jesus on his glorious return will certainly continue to keep the law as should we. the LORD wants us to be perfect, Holy as he is PERFECT and HOLY. Christ is the way, the only way to eternal life! Do not let anyone fool you. You are right it is simple and not complicated, it is the doctrines of men that hide and corrupt the truth.

Half or more of the people here will disagree but I have said the truth according to the words of Jesus and the prophets. I can add all the verses if you need but did not do so here for lack of space.

Simplicity and truth in Christ, Peace be upon you.