Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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But one is pre-selected for heaven and the other for hell. Preaching makes no sense. The elect doesn't need it and the other one can't respond to it.
what i think there saying is everyone is born dead to sin, and no one can genuinely ask to be saved
isn't that what Mormonism believe and isn't that like saying all people who suffer from the day they are born deserve it.It's a shoot yourself in the foot belief. They believe that the elect were chosen by God before they came to earth. Which is great news for them. But the others God chose for destruction. Not for any wrong that they had done, nor any sin they had committed. God simply God them to be the losers in the cosmic bingo of life. So that means that if you aren't one of the ones God has chosen you cannot be saved. No matter how much you repent, beg or flagellate yourself yourout of luck because God chose your behind for hell. And that is 100% against what the Word teaches. I can give Scripture as long as your arm to prove that is wrong.
Do they call that fatalism or something.
Possibly, I had read up on what they believe but that was some years ago. I would have to go back and look it up again.
It's definitely looks like fatalism to me.
Definitely more Muslim Christians haha
No. Everyone should be encouraged to call upon the name of the Lord.
I'm not saying anything. You asked about TULIP, and I gave you a brief overview of it. I haven't said what I personally believe. I almost didn't do it because people don't seem to be able to distinguish between someone outlining a particular set of beliefs and what someone purpots to believe. That's why I gave the disclaimer.
I never said you said that lol.
But what I am saying is Calvinist are Christian Muslims
It's definitely looks like fatalism to me.
Definitely more Muslim Christians haha
Regardless of what you believe, if God prescribes a particular way, the only way for it to happen is to follow the prescribed way.
Let's say God says that to be saved one must rub their belly. Through the foolishness of belly rubbing one must be saved. It wouldn't matter whether you believed in election or not. You would still have to rub your belly.
Now...substitute preaching for belly rubbing. God uses the foolishness of preaching to save people. He never asks do you believe you are elect or not?
If we take it( Arbitrarily saving/electing) to its logical conclusion, Christ crucified makes no sense and is of no effect.
Biblically, Jesus satisfied God's Justice on the cross. So mankind has to go through the Justice of God in order to be saved by His Grace.....And that is Faith alone in Christ alone. If God just arbitrarily saved through His sovereignty, it would impugn His Justice. And make Christ and His work of no effect.
The false belief of God electing people to salvation is dangerous for our witness for Christ.And it begs the question......Did the person who thinks they were just willy nilly elected to salvation.......ever truly make a personal objective choice for the Lord Jesus Christ?
I don't believe that. The pattern of scripture is much like the pattern found in Isaiah.
Chapter 53...salvation is explained
Chapter 54...the benefits of salvation are extolled
Chapter 55...a call is given to receive the aforementioned salvation
Chapter 56...how to live out salvation
This is what any good preaching will preach. And smart preachers know to leave the results to God.
I'll try rubbing my belly first. Maybe I'll get saved.just keep rubbing your head they'll come back haha
Please note these words carefully from the Westminster Confession which speaks about "effectual calling": "...being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit..." To be "quickened" means to be brought to life from the dead. To be "renewed" means to be regenerated (born again). So here is a so-called "elect" person being spiritually brought to life and even regenerated WITHOUT HAVING OBEYED THE GOSPEL FIRST.
But what saith the Scripture? But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13)
So first comes the "believing on His name". Which means believing everything about Christ, including His death. burial, and resurrection. Then comes the "receiving Him", which includes genuine repentance, and receiving Christ as one's Lord and Savior. Only then does a sinner receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and only then does the Holy Spirit supernaturally quicken and regenerate the believer.
In order to accommodate the false gospel of TULIP, everything in the Bible is turned on its head. The apostle Paul would strongly condemn this false gospel.
Reminds me of the Calvinist who kept insisting I believe something I do not, even when I could
show him close to fifty (50) posts that contradicted what he claimed. He also said that because
I was explaining Arminianism, it meant I believed that, too, even though I could show him posts
where I was likewise explaining Calvinism. Some people just cannot be reasoned with, regardless.
I also explain Molinism when it seems appropriate. That may be closer to what I actually believe.
I don't think he was actually doing it. I think I misread his post. But I think I might just start Camism and simply refer people to a website that doesn't exist.