What if you die before water baptism?

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Aaron56

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21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Look what it says there. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Being baptised into Christ saves us, just as having our hearts circumcised saves us. These are spiritual events, not physical.
Yes.

Water baptism, performed by man, saves us from a conscience that condemns us.
Baptism into the body of Christ, performed by the Holy Spirit, saves us to be forever with the Lord. This is eternal salvation. It is also how we know our place in the Body; our destiny and responsibility.
Baptism in fire matures us. It is how we are purified.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit, performed by the Lord, empowers us to fulfill our calling.

It is time for believers to press beyond their Sunday School level of understanding.
 

Wansvic

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This is false doctrine based on cherry picking ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How are Abraham’s hiers born if we just read this for what it clearly and plainly says ?
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST...."

This scripture reminds me of the parable of the marriage supper where those not properly clothed will be rejected:


"So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:10-14
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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I disagree. By arguing baptism is a work required for salvation, which is what I think you are claiming, you are effectively adding to the work of the cross and creating another gospel. Baptism is important, as is obedience in all matters including loving one another. But works do not save us.

Let's look at the context, shall we?

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Look what it says there. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Being baptised into Christ saves us, just as having our hearts circumcised saves us. These are spiritual events, not physical.

See also Colossians 2:10-13
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

If you are going to argue the "buried with him in baptism" is physical, you would likewise need to claim that the circumcision made without hands is also physical. I've attended countless baptisms, but never once recall any foreskins of the sins of the flesh being discarded after the ceremony.

Also would need to correspond to Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Romans 4:1-15 deals with this.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Perhaps you should ask yourself how a believing Jew could remain uncircumcised under that covenant? Look at how God dealt with Moses in Exodus 4? I'm not saying the works of circumcision or baptism were or are unimportant, but scripture makes clear they are not part of salvation.

Exactly. We are baptised into Christ, which is spiritual (for we are not physically immersed into Christ, anymore than a physical foreskin of the heart is discarded after true circumcision.

Yes. Referring to the many passages where God makes it clear we are saved by grace through faith, rather than through any works, let us not.
Why do you say being baptized into Christ is a spiritual baptism? Yes, the HS puts us into Christ when we have done what Jesus commanded at the great commission. Believe and is baptized is saved(added)

Could you please tell me which of these are NOT a physical baptism?
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;

33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.

8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

JBTN

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There were also those in Paul's day who did not realize what happened in the spiritual realm when they obeyed God's command to be baptized. His explanation is recorded in Romans 6:3-6.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6


Also there is detailed scripture revealing what Paul was referring to in Ephesians 1:13 concerning being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Notice what Paul told the 12 Ephesians in Acts 19. It is that word of truth, the gospel of salvation, that was introduced, believed, and obeyed that brought about the reality of their being indwelt (sealed) with the Holy Spirit.


"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; (Spirit) and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:1-6
The Romans 6 passage also says immersed into Christ, not into water.

In Acts 19:5 the Greek word for baptized is ebaptisthesan. According to what I have found it is an aorist indicative passive verb. It refers to an action that has already happened. So, when verse 5 says ”When they heard this, ebasptisthesan”. Isn’t it saying that when they had heard the baptism had taken place. That fits exactly with Ephesians 1:13 and the immersion performed by the Holy Spirit.

Otherwise wouldn’t this verse be wrong.

”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
 
Sep 15, 2019
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Why do you say being baptized into Christ is a spiritual baptism? Yes, the HS puts us into Christ when we have done what Jesus commanded at the great commission. Believe and is baptized is saved(added)

Could you please tell me which of these are NOT a physical baptism?
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized;

33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.

8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
You know that only one exception is required to disprove the rule? This one.

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Repentence, yes. Belief in the gospel on the Lord Jesus Christ, yes. Physical baptism, no.
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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Let's look at the context, shall we?

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Look what it says there. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Being baptised into Christ saves us, just as having our hearts circumcised saves us. These are spiritual events, not physical
I'm glad you bring up context, it is most important.

The part in parenthesis is a parenthetical expression. They add additional information but are not crucial to the meaning of the sentence but rather an afterthought or aside.

So without the additional information, this is how the sentence reads.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
This agrees with Romans 6 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

So Peter says baptism doth also now save us and he's clearly speaking of water because in the prior verse he says wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now the additional information is telling us what baptism DOES
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
Could you please point to a passage that tells us any other way to answer (appeal) to God for a good conscience? Such as the sinners prayer?
 

turbosixx

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You know that only one exception is required to disprove the rule? This one.

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Repentence, yes. Belief in the gospel on the Lord Jesus Christ, yes. Physical baptism, no.
That passage does not apply to us. The thief died before Jesus commanded Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

So, if Jesus said (after His sacrifice) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, and those converted heard the gospel and were physically baptized in water then the apostles later write to them and talk about being baptized, how would they know it's not their water baptism?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST...."

This scripture reminds me of the parable of the marriage supper where those not properly clothed will be rejected:


"So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:10-14
Nice yeah makes sense need that proper clothing indeed

Definately transformative

“God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s part of the doctrine that transforms sinners to children of God through the seed of Abraham and his life death and resurrection
 

Pilgrimshope

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The Romans 6 passage also says immersed into Christ, not into water.

In Acts 19:5 the Greek word for baptized is ebaptisthesan. According to what I have found it is an aorist indicative passive verb. It refers to an action that has already happened. So, when verse 5 says ”When they heard this, ebasptisthesan”. Isn’t it saying that when they had heard the baptism had taken place. That fits exactly with Ephesians 1:13 and the immersion performed by the Holy Spirit.

Otherwise wouldn’t this verse be wrong.

”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like they were practicing the one baptism

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water for repentance and remission of sins )


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( spirit given by Jesus from heaven by promise of the gospel )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

it’s hard to just reject the Bible and accept someone’s railings against what’s clear
 

Pilgrimshope

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”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV

1 John 5:1 has to be true as well. If you simply translate baptized in Galatians 3:26 it would say: For as many of you as have been immersed into Christ have put on Christ. It’s not a physical water baptism, it’s an immersion into Christ by the Holy Spirit. You can see this immersion in Ephesians 1:13.

”In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

You were sealed into Christ by the Holy Spirit when you heard the word and believed it. You were immersed into Christ.
Thanks but I prefer to not reject the bibles doctrines made plain
 

JBTN

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Feb 11, 2020
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Thanks but I prefer to not reject the bibles doctrines made plain
Sorry didn’t mean to rail.

Since you prefer not to reject the Bible’s doctrines, I suppose you would agree that anyone who believes in Jesus has already been born again as 1 John 5:1 very succinctly says. If so, how does it fit within your beliefs on water baptism. I ask only because I don’t understand how it can.

”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
 

Pilgrimshope

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. Lol more like troubleation
Yeah I think it’s pretty much a constant

If you noticed probably did in scripture Jesus spent alot of his time I. Disputes with the Pharisees and sadducees and keepers of the law and priests

paul also spent alot of time in disputes about doctrine he and Luke who were partners in ministry had such a dispute they parted ways for a time and took on other partners

ashen the subject matter is what someone believes pertaining to the salvation of thier soul …..things can get passionate

i think disagreements are fine even often useful to discern the truth between two opposing ideas sort of for the purpose and process of reconciliation the disagreement need to be considered first so disagreement is perfectly understandable

for me the issue this old fool perceives is when people begin to take personal things or say personal things because of teo positions that aren’t in agreement rather than work to reconcile the ideas to one truth based on the word of God

what I mean ( I’m sorry I’m not good at consise ordered statements ) but what I mean is two people can disagree and be respectful even have genuine affection towards each other and good intentions truly

abut wkso disagreement can lead to bitterness and grudge bearing and childish insults and immature behavior that then leads to issues between two believers who shod lives both of them and calls then brothers and sisters to one another

the issue for me is it seems like some are only here for the purpose of arguing about basic plain things stated clearly in scripture rather than here to discuss the Bible to a good intent of bringing our faith into the same realm and boundaries in the one body of Christ

to me it’s important for us to Remember this isn’t our personal seminary where we’re hear to teach everyone else because they just don’t get it …..but instead it’s a public forum to discuss the subject matter in the Bible , where if the intent is pure towards learning the truth it would be a huge beneficial place

i do t think people come to a public forum to find a seminary but to discuss and work through maybe some things we don’t fully grasp by ourselves

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If there is brotherly love first the intent will be right and the disagreement me would work towards reconciliation
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sorry didn’t mean to rail.

Since you prefer not to reject the Bible’s doctrines, I suppose you would agree that anyone who believes in Jesus has already been born again as 1 John 5:1 very succinctly says. If so, how does it fit within your beliefs on water baptism. I ask only because I don’t understand how it can.

”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
Do you believe in Jesus the lord and savior of the world ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe in Jesus so what he said will save I stick with. There’s no reason for anyone to hear him and then begin to explain why he is wrong and what he said doesn’t apply .

believing in Jesus doesn’t mean now we reject what he said will save us ……

If someone is a believer in Jesus they will take what he said as coming from the one they believe in and not tell everyone it’s irrelevant and invent reasoning why it’s not true or doesn’t apply

saying I believe and then rejecting what he said no I don’t think that’s going to save anyone to believe in Jesus as the gospel presents him accepting his word as truth yeah that will save anyone

soendingnour tine explaining why the things he sent tonus for salvstion aren’t needed in my humble opinion only shows disbelief

i believe in Jesus so therefore what he said I know is of God and truth I do t say I believe so I can then reject everything he taught about being saved …

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe in Jesus who said that too I do t say “ I believe in Jesus therefore I reject his teachings and No one needs to do what he said will save them “

That’s not faith in my opinion . Baptism is somet thing God designed for remission of sins Jesus was baptized the people in the region were baptized the apost eels baptized for remission of sins after Jesus died and rose and ascended to the throne there’s nothing in the Bible to change or even kegitwmwteky question it “ even a scriptire that says “if you believe your going to be saved “

of course that’s what Jesus said hate why Paul’s saying it it’s what the prophecies wrote it beforhand

sayong I believe and the. Rejecting what he said will save us that’s not what that means lol it means you actually believe the gospel you actually believe the testimony of our lord and savior he sent to the world for salvation

if I professed belief and faith in you I would take the things you say as truthh and would follow those things because I believed in you ……

i would t tell you I believe in you and then reject everything you said was important or said I needed to do to be saved ….that would be sort of bizarre I believe you but I don’t believe what your saying though
 

JBTN

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Feb 11, 2020
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Do you believe in Jesus the lord and savior of the world ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe in Jesus so what he said will save I stick with. There’s no reason for anyone to hear him and then begin to explain why he is wrong and what he said doesn’t apply .

believing in Jesus doesn’t mean now we reject what he said will save us ……

If someone is a believer in Jesus they will take what he said as coming from the one they believe in and not tell everyone it’s irrelevant and invent reasoning why it’s not true or doesn’t apply

saying I believe and then rejecting what he said no I don’t think that’s going to save anyone to believe in Jesus as the gospel presents him accepting his word as truth yeah that will save anyone

soendingnour tine explaining why the things he sent tonus for salvstion aren’t needed in my humble opinion only shows disbelief

i believe in Jesus so therefore what he said I know is of God and truth I do t say I believe so I can then reject everything he taught about being saved …

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe in Jesus who said that too I do t say “ I believe in Jesus therefore I reject his teachings and No one needs to do what he said will save them “

That’s not faith in my opinion . Baptism is somet thing God designed for remission of sins Jesus was baptized the people in the region were baptized the apost eels baptized for remission of sins after Jesus died and rose and ascended to the throne there’s nothing in the Bible to change or even kegitwmwteky question it “ even a scriptire that says “if you believe your going to be saved “

of course that’s what Jesus said hate why Paul’s saying it it’s what the prophecies wrote it beforhand

sayong I believe and the. Rejecting what he said will save us that’s not what that means lol it means you actually believe the gospel you actually believe the testimony of our lord and savior he sent to the world for salvation

if I professed belief and faith in you I would take the things you say as truthh and would follow those things because I believed in you ……

i would t tell you I believe in you and then reject everything you said was important or said I needed to do to be saved ….that would be sort of bizarre I believe you but I don’t believe what your saying though

Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.

Also, Mark 16:16 is consistent with what I believe. If you believe that a person is immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon belief like Ephesians 1:13 says, that is a baptism. It also helps to understand why baptism isn’t mentioned for the person who believeth not. If they don’t believe the Holy Spirit would not immerse them into Christ.

Immersion into Christ does accomplish remission of sins.

”In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.7.ESV

I don’t reject anything the Bible says, nor have I tried to explain how Jesus was wrong. I believe this to be true as well:

”All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,“
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/2ti.3.16.ESV

1 John 5:1 is scripture and therefore was breathed out by God. When it says that everyone who believes has been born of God I believe that is true.
 
Sep 15, 2019
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That passage does not apply to us. The thief died before Jesus commanded Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This here is my point. By believing that baptism saves or that there are different ways to salvation which include works, you are following a different gospel. There has always been only one way to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 - 9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That faith may have looked different to different people. Noah built an ark, Abraham got circumcised when he was 99, Moses returned to Egypt and told Pharaoh to let God's people go, we get baptised. But baptism is just an outward manifestation of the faith through which by grace, we have already been saved.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.

Also, Mark 16:16 is consistent with what I believe. If you believe that a person is immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon belief like Ephesians 1:13 says, that is a baptism. It also helps to understand why baptism isn’t mentioned for the person who believeth not. If they don’t believe the Holy Spirit would not immerse them into Christ.

Immersion into Christ does accomplish remission of sins.

”In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.7.ESV

I don’t reject anything the Bible says, nor have I tried to explain how Jesus was wrong. I believe this to be true as well:

”All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,“
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/2ti.3.16.ESV

1 John 5:1 is scripture and therefore was breathed out by God. When it says that everyone who believes has been born of God I believe that is true.
If you believe that a person is immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon belief like Ephesians 1:13 says, that is a baptism. ( you’ve created this baptism though the bi ke says there is one baptism you are trying to create a different baptism then try to make what scripture says not about the baptism in the Bible but the one your creating are …..you Joseph prince ? )

It also helps to understand why baptism isn’t mentioned for the person who believeth not. “

Yes they refuse to believe that baptism is for repentance and the remission of thier sins in Jesus name and was done before and after he died and rose Jesus , his apostles his disciples men and women all heard about baptism for remission of sins and they believed it so they just acted like they did on gods word

If they don’t believe the Holy Spirit would not immerse them into Christ.”

again your whole idea is based on you have created this “ spiritual immersion “ baptism but the Bible teaches there’s one baptism for the remission of sins in Jesus name and says you’ll receive the holy ghost if you believe like this example from the Bible

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word ( they believed what Peter said so they acted on it ) were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-

or this example for gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

I don’t have that secret knowledge of this spiritual immersion thing your talking about that means we don’t need to get baptized …. Jesus gives the spirit as he wills to believers in measure baptism is not what that is

but I’m pretty stubborn so