What if you die before water baptism?

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Dec 18, 2023
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Never said it was wrong ….I just said it’s not necassary I know people who’ve been twice because they wanted like a fresh start being more aware later of what it means I don’t have any issue with what anyone else does between them and the lord more power to ya maybe you got some triple does of something who knows
I never said you did I just simply asked you a question
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I know person who went back to there old ways after being baptized twice.

The first baptism is at birth called the christening.

The second baptism is called the remission if sins.
Yeah I’ve heard a lot of theories over time lots of different movements come and go if you look at it over decades rather than days or years

we hear so much differences but then we were warned long ago that different doctrines would come later and turn people against the true doctrines of God

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


in the end I only have my own soul tbat I have to answer the lord with . I don’t have to answer for another who wasnt baptized but that’s between them and Jesus . and I mean that I like to try to share scripture most Christian’s will at least consider scripture.. at least tbey used to thirty years ago or more

i believe the things the Bible says so as best I can understand it with prayer consideration and study and also practicing it when I have the chance in life as best I can as well that really helps most
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Yeah was just answering …..
cool don't worry your not on trial with me, all tho I will always watch my brother 😊

So I didn't think I had a need to get baptised a third time, but at my church there was a special event I just stumbled upon one day.

And I thought why not, so I got baptised, just the next day my long shoulder pain vanished 😂
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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cool don't worry your not on trial with me, all tho I will always watch my brother 😊

So I didn't think I had a need to get baptised a third time, but at my church there was a special event I just stumbled upon one day.

And I thought why not, so I got baptised, just the next day my long shoulder pain vanished 😂
yeah everything’s a okay and cool as a cucumber

yeah that’s actually a pretty cool testimony the part about your shoulder I mean I like hearing stuff like that.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Yeah I’ve heard a lot of theories over time lots of different movements come and go if you look at it over decades rather than days or years

we hear so much differences but then we were warned long ago that different doctrines would come later and turn people against the true doctrines of God

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


in the end I only have my own soul tbat I have to answer the lord with . I don’t have to answer for another who wasnt baptized but that’s between them and Jesus . and I mean that I like to try to share scripture most Christian’s will at least consider scripture.. at least tbey used to thirty years ago or more

i believe the things the Bible says so as best I can understand it with prayer consideration and study and also practicing it when I have the chance in life as best I can as well that really helps most
nice scripture thanks, you can learn alot from this reassurance 😂

The heart is a bloom and it a beautiful day
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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While reading your comment a scripture immediately came to mind. You may be familiar with it. In the account an apostle gives a very telling instruction to a group of people who have already acknowledged belief in Jesus. He said, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40
Their response to his instruction is as follows:

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:40-42

False doctrine? No sir. That's expressly stated in God's word. Refusing to accept to truth about water baptism is not wise.
Adding works to grace is not wise. You make salvation conditional on something that we do. There is nothing that we can do but believe and receive Christ. Christians should be baptised, but it does not save us. If you bothered to read what the Bible says about baptism, you would know why we are baptised. It has nothing to do with being born again.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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But what about us who were spiritually born again before we did what His word lead us to do, and were baptized? I KNOW I was saved before I was baptized, how does your your equation hold up to this? I was knees on the ground broken with no hope, spiritually dead when He granted me repentance and I realized "I can't do this anymore", and by His blood and sacrifice, my spirit was resurrected and I was reconciled to our Creator. Made brand new overnight with all new priorities and desirers. I was born again and had not been baptized yet. Once I was saved I went to be baptized first opportunity, but I was 100% SAVED before that happen for sure. how can this be if what you say is true?
Baptismal regeneration is a false and divisive doctrine. It's based on cherry picking some verses and ignoring the rest. It is not even logical. I know of Christians who were born again in prison and were executed. They were not allowed to be baptised. Those who promote this false doctrine would condemn those men to hell.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Baptismal regeneration is a false and divisive doctrine. It's based on cherry picking some verses and ignoring the rest. It is not even logical. I know of Christians who were born again in prison and were executed. They were not allowed to be baptised. Those who promote this false doctrine would condemn those men to hell.
This is false doctrine based on cherry picking ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How are Abraham’s hiers born if we just read this for what it clearly and plainly says ?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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This is false doctrine based on cherry picking ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How are Abraham’s hiers born if we just read this for what it clearly and plainly says ?
Being baptised into Christ is done by the Holy Spirit, not by immersion in water. Water baptism symbolises our death with Christ. What do you do with a dead person? You bury them. And that is what the bible says. Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:4. You don't bury a live person. We do not die with Christ until we believe and receive Him (Galatians 2:20). No one can unsettle me regarding my salvation. It's as sure as the Word of Jesus. I was born again maybe a year before I was baptised. I was led to the Lord by a baby sprinkler and I had no knowledge of baptism by immersion. Do you seriously think that if I died before being baptised I would have been rejected by God? For not getting wet in ignorance?

Perhaps you reject Martin Luther as a believer. He was not baptised, only sprinkled as a baby. And likewise countless other born again believers.
 

JBTN

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Feb 11, 2020
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This is false doctrine based on cherry picking ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How are Abraham’s hiers born if we just read this for what it clearly and plainly says ?
”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV

1 John 5:1 has to be true as well. If you simply translate baptized in Galatians 3:26 it would say: For as many of you as have been immersed into Christ have put on Christ. It’s not a physical water baptism, it’s an immersion into Christ by the Holy Spirit. You can see this immersion in Ephesians 1:13.

”In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

You were sealed into Christ by the Holy Spirit when you heard the word and believed it. You were immersed into Christ.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Thank God we're Christians and not part of that catholic religious stuff that's not even in the Bible! :rolleyes:
Then Jesus never said Thank God im not catholic

Jesus sad to tax collector, the pharisee who said thank God I'm not a like that man was less remembered than the tax collector who said I am a sinner.
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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What we are arguing is that baptism doesn't save anyone.
BINGO!!
The question posed is a hypothetical. I'm not saying this is the OP's intent, but the goal of this particular hypothetical is not to establish truth but to undermine truth. We need to look to God's word for answers, not hypotheticals.
Satan is doing his best to confuse us. If he can get us to take our eyes off God's word and seek truth elsewhere, he's done his job. That is what this question is doing.

Baptism doesn't save anyone? That's contrary to what God's word says.
that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you NASB
Right there in black and white. Baptism now saves you.
Now people, like those who look to hypotheticals for truth, will do everything they can to tell you baptism doesn't save you even though the bible says it does. They will tell you baptism is an outward showing of an inward change. Again, the bible doesn't say that anywhere. Bible says baptism now saves you.
I will trust my eternal destiny on what the bible tells me, not on what it doesn't say and man's hypothetical questions.

Paul wrote a letter to the Galatians, that they shouldn't practice circumcision, because it isn't required for salvation. But he also circumcised Timothy because he was a Jew. Baptism is, like circumcision was, an act of obedience. But elevating it to the status of a saving work is a damnable heresy, in my view, as Jesus is the only One who saves.
Correct, under the new covenant we are not required to be circumcised. God commanded circumcision for the Jews.
Ask yourself, under that covenant, what became of the Jew who was not circumcised? Gen. 17:14

Under the new covenant, the bible tells us we are spiritually circumcised. How are we spiritually circumcised? By having been baptized, past tense.
11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism,

The prophet in 1 Kings 13 believed what a man told him contrary to what God told him, and it cost him. Let's not make the same mistake.
 

turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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NO ------you are saved By Faith in what Jesus accomplished by shedding His Blood ---dying on the cross and being resurrected ------

If the Gospel saves you all people who just hear the Gospel would be saved and that is False Doctrine ----


God first has to draw the Person -----that is give them ACCESS to unveil their Ears . Eyes and Mind so they can hear and comprehend -----that is Receive the Gospel -------so that saving Faith is then inbirthed in the Person ----and with the right Faith being inbirthed in the person they Believe the Gospel and are Saved ------

Greek word for Drawn

Lexicon
helkó: to drag
Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

HELPS word-Studies
1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.


An unbeliever reads the Gospel but Satan has blinded their minds to grasp it rightly and their eyes and ears are veiled so they do see or hear the real message of the Gospel -------they have not the right Faith to be saved -----

The Gospel doesn't save us ------what the Gospel inbirths in us Saves us


Baptism by the LIVING WATER ---WHO IS THE HOLY SPIRIT saves you ---

Baptism by being bunked in a pool and coming up from the water itself is today used as a profession of your Faith --------AFTER ---------you have been Baptised by the Living Water ----The Holy Spirit --who has changed your Corrupt Spirit to and Incorrupt Spirit so your Heaven Bound ------

Your Baptised in WATER ----THe Holy Spirit is Likened unto LIVING WATER
God's apostle says the gospel is the power of God for salvation. We are saved by the gospel. I don't think anyone believes just hearing it saves you.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Do you have a passage that tells us we are baptized by living water? I haven't seen that one.
 
Sep 15, 2019
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BINGO!!
The question posed is a hypothetical. I'm not saying this is the OP's intent, but the goal of this particular hypothetical is not to establish truth but to undermine truth. We need to look to God's word for answers, not hypotheticals.
Satan is doing his best to confuse us. If he can get us to take our eyes off God's word and seek truth elsewhere, he's done his job. That is what this question is doing.
I disagree. By arguing baptism is a work required for salvation, which is what I think you are claiming, you are effectively adding to the work of the cross and creating another gospel. Baptism is important, as is obedience in all matters including loving one another. But works do not save us.

Baptism doesn't save anyone? That's contrary to what God's word says.
that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you NASB
Right there in black and white. Baptism now saves you.
Let's look at the context, shall we?

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Look what it says there. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Being baptised into Christ saves us, just as having our hearts circumcised saves us. These are spiritual events, not physical.

See also Colossians 2:10-13
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

If you are going to argue the "buried with him in baptism" is physical, you would likewise need to claim that the circumcision made without hands is also physical. I've attended countless baptisms, but never once recall any foreskins of the sins of the flesh being discarded after the ceremony.

Also would need to correspond to Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Correct, under the new covenant we are not required to be circumcised. God commanded circumcision for the Jews. Ask yourself, under that covenant, what became of the Jew who was not circumcised? Gen. 17:14
Romans 4:1-15 deals with this.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Perhaps you should ask yourself how a believing Jew could remain uncircumcised under that covenant? Look at how God dealt with Moses in Exodus 4? I'm not saying the works of circumcision or baptism were or are unimportant, but scripture makes clear they are not part of salvation.

Under the new covenant, the bible tells us we are spiritually circumcised. How are we spiritually circumcised? By having been baptized, past tense.
11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism,
Exactly. We are baptised into Christ, which is spiritual (for we are not physically immersed into Christ, anymore than a physical foreskin of the heart is discarded after true circumcision.

The prophet in 1 Kings 13 believed what a man told him contrary to what God told him, and it cost him. Let's not make the same mistake.
Yes. Referring to the many passages where God makes it clear we are saved by grace through faith, rather than through any works, let us not.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Adding works to grace is not wise. You make salvation conditional on something that we do. There is nothing that we can do but believe and receive Christ. Christians should be baptised, but it does not save us. If you bothered to read what the Bible says about baptism, you would know why we are baptised. It has nothing to do with being born again.
I'm curious what you think Peter meant in the exchange?

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:40-42
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
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~~~~~~
The question was, originally, as I understand it, was... If you died right after accepting Yeshua, but before getting the chance to be baptized, will you go to hell?. I have a few answers to this... but will only say NO. Death is sleep (Heb 9:27) And as it is appointed unto men once to due, but after this the judgement; Psalms 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death. There are more, but I won't take that research from you.
the answer no you do not go to hell.

actually when you see the word Sleep contextually in the New Testament is always speaks of those who died in Christ because we have hope of the resurrection
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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”Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV

1 John 5:1 has to be true as well. If you simply translate baptized in Galatians 3:26 it would say: For as many of you as have been immersed into Christ have put on Christ. It’s not a physical water baptism, it’s an immersion into Christ by the Holy Spirit. You can see this immersion in Ephesians 1:13.

”In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/eph.1.13.ESV

You were sealed into Christ by the Holy Spirit when you heard the word and believed it. You were immersed into Christ.
There were also those in Paul's day who did not realize what happened in the spiritual realm when they obeyed God's command to be baptized. His explanation is recorded in Romans 6:3-6.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6


Also there is detailed scripture revealing what Paul was referring to in Ephesians 1:13 concerning being sealed with the Holy Spirit. Notice what Paul told the 12 Ephesians in Acts 19. It is that word of truth, the gospel of salvation, that was introduced, believed, and obeyed that brought about the reality of their being indwelt (sealed) with the Holy Spirit.


"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; (Spirit) and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:1-6