What if you die before water baptism?
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Don't twist my words. Baptism is a step of obedience that follows the true salvation experience. The concept that baptism is essential for receiving Christ is not Biblical. I know this to be true because I was baptised about a year after I was saved. No one told me about baptism until then. You seriously think that God will condemn a person to hell because they were not baptised in water? If so, your god is not the one I know and the One found in His word.
Yes, God wants obedience. It's something we learn as we go along. "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered." (Hebrews 5:8) Do you imagine that you are better than Jesus? That your obedience is perfect from day one? If it is not, where will you end up? Be careful how you judge other Christians especially. You will be judged the same way.
You need to learn something about grace. That's what saves us. Getting wet has nothing to do with being born again (John 1:12). If you have accepted Christ, you are born again. Everything else follows from that.
Yes, God wants obedience. It's something we learn as we go along. "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered." (Hebrews 5:8) Do you imagine that you are better than Jesus? That your obedience is perfect from day one? If it is not, where will you end up? Be careful how you judge other Christians especially. You will be judged the same way.
You need to learn something about grace. That's what saves us. Getting wet has nothing to do with being born again (John 1:12). If you have accepted Christ, you are born again. Everything else follows from that.
The answer to your first question is in Luke 23:40-43 The criminal turned to God in the last hours of his life and the Bible records Jesus saying to him "I promise you that today you will be in Paradise with me"
We don't know what crime/crimes that man did but we do know that the Lord Jesus loved and forgave him 🥰
We don't know what crime/crimes that man did but we do know that the Lord Jesus loved and forgave him 🥰
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I do not judge others, that's for God alone. I do however try to help others see the truth more accurately.
A story of salvation like yours is not found in scripture yet you feel you can use it to determine truth. With all due respect, if your personal experiences are how you establish truth, I will reject everything you have to say. You back what you believe with God's word, I will surely consider what you say.
If you can show me an example (after Pentecost) where someone heard the gospel and was not baptized and we are told they are saved, I stand corrected. What I read in the bible is all those who believed the gospel and converted to Christ were baptized. We even see some who heard the gospel and were water baptized, with the wrong baptism, being baptized again with the proper baptism. If the truth is baptism doesn't save us, then there would be zero reason for believers who had been baptized to be baptized again.
I understand grace and it is not a license to do as we see fit.
A story of salvation like yours is not found in scripture yet you feel you can use it to determine truth. With all due respect, if your personal experiences are how you establish truth, I will reject everything you have to say. You back what you believe with God's word, I will surely consider what you say.
If you can show me an example (after Pentecost) where someone heard the gospel and was not baptized and we are told they are saved, I stand corrected. What I read in the bible is all those who believed the gospel and converted to Christ were baptized. We even see some who heard the gospel and were water baptized, with the wrong baptism, being baptized again with the proper baptism. If the truth is baptism doesn't save us, then there would be zero reason for believers who had been baptized to be baptized again.
I understand grace and it is not a license to do as we see fit.
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I've heard all the arguments for baptismal regeneration. If you pull a bunch of verses out of context, stir in a little religiosity, a hint of self righteousness and religious pride, voila! "Baptism Saves You" soup! Some are saved in prison and have no opportunity to be baptised before they are executed. This happened to some Australians in Indonesia. They asked for baptism and the authorities refused. You seriously think that God will condemn these men to death for failing to be baptised? That is not the God I know and love.
Converts should be baptised. That's because they are saved, not to get them saved. Baptism is an external witness to what God has done on the inside. We are born again by receiving Christ. And that's it. John 1:12. Everything else comes after we are born again.
Converts should be baptised. That's because they are saved, not to get them saved. Baptism is an external witness to what God has done on the inside. We are born again by receiving Christ. And that's it. John 1:12. Everything else comes after we are born again.
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The thing is all those who whipping out the scriptures to support baptism, which I agree with I'm baptised, like they didn't read the question properly....the person wanted to know IF ONE DIES BEFORE....BEFORE....BEFORE BEING BAPTISED if they would be saved....yes I repeated the "before" for emphasis 😄😄😄😄.....
So thank you Gideon, I hope they understand the context in which the question was asked and answered.
So thank you Gideon, I hope they understand the context in which the question was asked and answered.
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For me I believe when a person goes to Christ except him as their Lord and saviour and truly let him into their life/heart at that point the person is born again. For me baptism is important and a beautiful way of saying I am for Jesus he has saved me.
But I think people get baptism wrong.
A few weeks ago a two week old baby was "what the Church of England calls baptised" I call that a Christening but the Church of England says that the two week old child has now given her life to Christ 😱
How is that possible?
But I think people get baptism wrong.
A few weeks ago a two week old baby was "what the Church of England calls baptised" I call that a Christening but the Church of England says that the two week old child has now given her life to Christ 😱
How is that possible?
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Many beliefs are expressed. However, scripture is the final authority. And scripture reveals that one's sin is dealt with upon obedience to the command to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ; it is the very counsel of God. (Luke 7:30)
Jesus made it clear that being born again involved water and Spirit, and was necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Note in every detailed conversion account, individuals believed the gospel message, were indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ. See: Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16. As Jesus prophesied, the same message would be carried to all nations beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)
Note as well that Saul, prior to becoming the Apostle Paul, was instructed to wash away his sins in baptism calling upon the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16) Afterward Paul addresses what he came to understand regarding what occurs when a person is obedient to God's command:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
FOR IF (only IF) we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, (via baptism) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, (note in baptism sin is destroyed) that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Col 2:11-12
Jesus made it clear that being born again involved water and Spirit, and was necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Note in every detailed conversion account, individuals believed the gospel message, were indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ. See: Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16. As Jesus prophesied, the same message would be carried to all nations beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)
Note as well that Saul, prior to becoming the Apostle Paul, was instructed to wash away his sins in baptism calling upon the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16) Afterward Paul addresses what he came to understand regarding what occurs when a person is obedient to God's command:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
FOR IF (only IF) we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, (via baptism) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, (note in baptism sin is destroyed) that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Col 2:11-12
Your brief explanation of water baptism was on point.
Regarding salvation: there are several different salvations. Only one is about being saved to be with the Lord upon death. Another includes salvation from the works of the world. Another, about the pursuit of our enemy. Another, about from a conscience that condemns us. The focus on “getting to heaven” was birthed out of a Roman Catholic fund raiser. That’s why Peter is at the gate of heaven in all the jokes: “you want in? Then you’ll do what we tell you!”
Some might say “This is too complicated.” It’s only complicated to those who hold to the idea that God’s primary plan is to get people to heaven when they die. No. He has been and is all about the church representing Christ now, in the earth. The mature understand this.
Regarding salvation: there are several different salvations. Only one is about being saved to be with the Lord upon death. Another includes salvation from the works of the world. Another, about the pursuit of our enemy. Another, about from a conscience that condemns us. The focus on “getting to heaven” was birthed out of a Roman Catholic fund raiser. That’s why Peter is at the gate of heaven in all the jokes: “you want in? Then you’ll do what we tell you!”
Some might say “This is too complicated.” It’s only complicated to those who hold to the idea that God’s primary plan is to get people to heaven when they die. No. He has been and is all about the church representing Christ now, in the earth. The mature understand this.
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"Salvation" to some is a "get out of hell free" ticket. It's not. Being born again is the starting point only. That allows us to see the kingdom of God. Salvation would be better translated "deliverance" because of the connotation of modern usage. Luke 4:18 is what Jesus quoted from Isaiah and what He ministered in His time on earth. He told his disciples to teach others who would teach others and so on to the end of the age. There are Christians who have made little spiritual progress because they've had little teaching and little ministry. Singing loud and banal Christian songs is not the answer. Known and followed truth sets Christians free.
Christians need to know the difference between the initial, born again experience and the ongoing "salvation of the soul". I've studied this subject and I've experienced it to some degree. I rarely, if ever, hear it preached. So its little wonder that few know what it means.
Christians need to know the difference between the initial, born again experience and the ongoing "salvation of the soul". I've studied this subject and I've experienced it to some degree. I rarely, if ever, hear it preached. So its little wonder that few know what it means.
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Not only should sanctification be taught by the pastor teacher, it should be our fellowship with other believers. Like you said, it is rarely taught, it rarely is a part of our fellowship. So what do we have? The majority are stuck on "being born-again." Forever stuck at the starting line and not advancing in His plan for their lives. Most are not even sure about the "get out of jail free card."
It's a possible ticket to get out of jail or a ticket that can be thrown away........Stuck at the starting line and never learning to grow and live in His grace and knowledge.
It's a possible ticket to get out of jail or a ticket that can be thrown away........Stuck at the starting line and never learning to grow and live in His grace and knowledge.
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Agreed.
Sunday lessons to the masses are relegated to the least common denominator. They cannot promote growth by design. The question most believers cannot answer is “Who watches over your soul?” This is a starkly different question than “Who sets the agenda for the Sunday meetings?”
The Lord is restoring the father/son paradigm now for a reason.
Sunday lessons to the masses are relegated to the least common denominator. They cannot promote growth by design. The question most believers cannot answer is “Who watches over your soul?” This is a starkly different question than “Who sets the agenda for the Sunday meetings?”
The Lord is restoring the father/son paradigm now for a reason.
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