What if you die before water baptism?

[Pilgrimshope]

Certainly true.

Now if you were to accept the baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded, we would be on the same page!

Is “ the Holy Ghost “ the name ? “The father “ is that a name ? “ the son “ is that a name ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Holy Ghost isn’t a name it’s a title for the spirit of God the spirit of Christ

Or Is Jesus the name ?

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The name of the father son and holy ghost is the name of Jesus the Christ the name of the lord

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To be baptized in the name of the fether son and Holy Ghost is to be baptized in the name of Jesus

So of course I believe in baptism in the name of God I don’t believe in three Gods , just one and he has a name it isn’t “the Father the son and the Holy Ghost “ it’s the name of those three who are one

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus which is the name of the father son and Holy Ghost in one person.

As far as “ water “ baptism that’s the only baptism the church has ever been commanded to do in Jesus name

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[turbosixx]

This is a thread for people who believe water baptism is required for salvation, if you aren't that type of person, then obviously you don't need to answer this question, as I know you will just say the man is saved, as water isnt required.

Hypothetical situations that are often brought up by people to argue against baptismal regeneration are:

1. What about someone who is ill, about to die, cries out to God, asks Jesus to save them, will they die lost because they didn't have enough time to get baptized?

2. What about someone who is on a stranded island and has no one to baptize him, dies there, will he die lost?

In my opinion both of these arguments deserve a proper response, which is why I am making this thread. Give me your case, you who believe baptism in water is required for salvation.

PS I hope this thread isnt gonna turn into 50 responses and 0 answers and everyone just saying "Its not required for salvation because of such and such." I get it, I know the arguments both ways, but im just asking our baptismal regeneration people here to answer these. Thank you for understanding.

I believe baptism is necessary in order to be saved. I do have an opinion on those questions but I suggest there is a bigger problem here. Is that really how one determines doctrine? If what one perceives the bible saying will pass their hypothetical question?
Words are how thoughts and understanding is conveyed. God has given us all the words we need to understand.

God has given us examples of people hearing the gospel and being converted (saved, added to the church). When you read those conversions, were they baptized or not? Is not being baptized and option?

PS I'm not catholic

 

[JerryHernandez]

The Bible says there will be a resurrection of just and unjust

 

[ewq1938]

This is a thread for people who believe water baptism is required for salvation, if you aren't that type of person, then obviously you don't need to answer this question, as I know you will just say the man is saved, as water isnt required.

Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.


Water baptism is called "the baptism of repentance" which in itself proves that it is something more than just a "bath". It is a physical act that teaches about repentance and the removal of sins through forgiveness. Baptism is nothing more than repentance in some water because the water symbolizes how we get clean so it was a teaching tool to help people understand that repenting cleaned their souls like water cleaned your body. We don't need the literal water anymore because there is a greater baptism:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

 

[JerryHernandez]

John the Baptist baptized repentance, the baptizing in water after Jesus (because he had nothing to repent from) meant simply a dedication to God. However, that is not what saves you. you must act according to your dedication. John 17:3 tells you what really saves.

 

[Gideon300]

This is a thread for people who believe water baptism is required for salvation, if you aren't that type of person, then obviously you don't need to answer this question, as I know you will just say the man is saved, as water isnt required.

Hypothetical situations that are often brought up by people to argue against baptismal regeneration are:

1. What about someone who is ill, about to die, cries out to God, asks Jesus to save them, will they die lost because they didn't have enough time to get baptized?

2. What about someone who is on a stranded island and has no one to baptize him, dies there, will he die lost?

In my opinion both of these arguments deserve a proper response, which is why I am making this thread. Give me your case, you who believe baptism in water is required for salvation.

PS I hope this thread isnt gonna turn into 50 responses and 0 answers and everyone just saying "Its not required for salvation because of such and such." I get it, I know the arguments both ways, but im just asking our baptismal regeneration people here to answer these. Thank you for understanding.

Hello @Komentaja, the RCC insists that water baptism is required to be saved, except in certain, special cases.

See below.

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM​

​

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.​

​

However, there are exceptions to the above, such as the "baptism of blood" and the "baptism of desire" (which are explained below in this Catechism excerpt).

​

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.​

​

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.​

​

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. ~Catechism of the Catholic Church​

Some of our Protestant denominations also believe in the necessity of water baptism to be saved, such as the Churches of Christ/Christian Churches, but some go a step further than the RCC by allowing for no exceptions whatsoever.

I was, in fact, part of an ecumenical prison ministry where I got to experience this 'no exceptions' rule, firsthand. Pastors from the various denominations took turns preaching for Sunday morning services, and when it was the local Christian Church's Sunday to preach, the topic of the necessity of saving faith PLUS water baptism was broached.

I don't believe that anyone was facing a life sentence in the area of the prison that we were in that particular Sunday, but there were a number of men who had a decade or two to go before they would/could be released, so one of them asked this question (of the Christian Church's pastor) at the end of the service, "since I cannot be baptized* in here, what happens to me if I die before I get out?"

The answer that he was given from the pulpit was, "then God didn't want you to be saved"

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - as important as I believe that water baptism is, I do not believe that anyone is saved by it, and I am somewhat horrified by the "no exclusions" clause that is held by a couple of the Protestant denominations who teach that it is (salvific) .. just FYI.

Baptismal regeneration is false, based on cherry picking scripture and makes God out to be some kind tyrant who demands obedience to a maybe impossible command. Those who subscribe to the false doctrine can't have exceptions. It is appalling to say to someone that God does not want them to be saved and it also contradicts scripture. "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."

 

[JerryHernandez]

God is not a tyrant, God is love. he remembers that we are sinners. God sets a guid for us to follow only in the best we can.

 

[JerryHernandez]

In Mathew we are to make disciples the baptize them. first you must be a disciple.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.


Water baptism is called "the baptism of repentance" which in itself proves that it is something more than just a "bath". It is a physical act that teaches about repentance and the removal of sins through forgiveness. Baptism is nothing more than repentance in some water because the water symbolizes how we get clean so it was a teaching tool to help people understand that repenting cleaned their souls like water cleaned your body. We don't need the literal water anymore because there is a greater baptism:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.


Water baptism is called "the baptism of repentance" which in itself proves that it is something more than just a "bath". It is a physical act that teaches about repentance and the removal of sins through forgiveness. Baptism is nothing more than repentance in some water because the water symbolizes how we get clean so it was a teaching tool to help people understand that repenting cleaned their souls like water cleaned your body. We don't need the literal water anymore because there is a greater baptism:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Exactly !!! the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45-47‬ ‭

In Jerusalem at pentocost

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. ….Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

years later among the gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word….answered Peter , Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 47-48‬

Baptism never changed Jesus name was revealed after he shed his blood for remission of sins. Believing in Jesus doesn’t mean now we can keep sinning and don’t have to repent , it means now we can receive his spirit and have the power to repent and walk upright

 

[Komentaja]

Is “ the Holy Ghost “ the name ? “The father “ is that a name ? “ the son “ is that a name ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Holy Ghost isn’t a name it’s a title for the spirit of God the spirit of Christ

Or Is Jesus the name ?

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The name of the father son and holy ghost is the name of Jesus the Christ the name of the lord

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To be baptized in the name of the fether son and Holy Ghost is to be baptized in the name of Jesus

So of course I believe in baptism in the name of God I don’t believe in three Gods , just one and he has a name it isn’t “the Father the son and the Holy Ghost “ it’s the name of those three who are one

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus which is the name of the father son and Holy Ghost in one person.

As far as “ water “ baptism that’s the only baptism the church has ever been commanded to do in Jesus name

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I've heard the argument and its not convincing at all.

"Stop in the name of the law!"
"I did it in the name of love"

Whats the name of the law? law isnt a name!!

You see?

It is talking about the authority, Jesus was given all authority, which is why He told people to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, into the trinity, in the authority of the trinity.

The book of Acts is a historical book like the book of kings, chronicles, and most likely they used the formula for baptism found in Matthew, its just abbreviated as "baptized in the name of Jesus" because it was done according to Jesus' command and authority.
The didache which is dated really early agrees with the formula in Matthew, as does all of church history.

 

[Moses_Young]

It is funny because usually people in this camp LOVE to spiritualize any OT prophecies regarding israel.
Thats all spiritual but a spiritual circumcision? NOPE. Its nothing but water baptism. Let me tell you buddy

God declared physical circumcision to be an everlasting sign of His covenant with His people, and yet we find that Abraham was declared righteous - i.e. right with God - while uncircumcised. Obviously, the New Testament church declares physical circumcision unnecessary for salvation. How much moreso with physical baptism, which God never declared to be an everlasting sign?

Of course, God says we should be baptised, so we should be baptised. But this is an act of obedience through faith, not an act which merits our salvation, which is already achieved through Christ's perfect and complete work.

 

[Komentaja]

I believe baptism is necessary in order to be saved. I do have an opinion on those questions but I suggest there is a bigger problem here. Is that really how one determines doctrine? If what one perceives the bible saying will pass their hypothetical question?
Words are how thoughts and understanding is conveyed. God has given us all the words we need to understand.

God has given us examples of people hearing the gospel and being converted (saved, added to the church). When you read those conversions, were they baptized or not? Is not being baptized and option?

PS I'm not catholic

This is a good argument worth considering. Lets not get lost in human wisdom and hypotheticals. Thanks for contributing

 

[turbosixx]

Baptismal regeneration is false, based on cherry picking scripture and makes God out to be some kind tyrant who demands obedience to a maybe impossible command. Those who subscribe to the false doctrine can't have exceptions. It is appalling to say to someone that God does not want them to be saved and it also contradicts scripture. "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."

From my experience, most of those who do not believe baptism is necessary are the cherry pickers. They ignore passages that establish the necessity of baptism and they pick passages that have nothing to do with baptism.

Obedience is exactly what God wants.
4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

To not obey is disobedience and there is a lot of scripture that shows us what God thinks and does to those who rebel.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

If baptism is not necessary, then it's optional.

 

[Komentaja]

From my experience, most of those who do not believe baptism is necessary are the cherry pickers. They ignore passages that establish the necessity of baptism and they pick passages that have nothing to do with baptism.

Obedience is exactly what God wants.
4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

To not obey is disobedience and there is a lot of scripture that shows us what God thinks and does to those who rebel.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

If baptism is not necessary, then it's optional.

Hey there friend. Do you believe that baptism by immersion in the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Ghost is the correct baptism? Matthew 28 Great commission?

 

[turbosixx]

Hey there friend. Do you believe that baptism by immersion in the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Ghost is the correct baptism? Matthew 28 Great commission?

Absolutely.

One interesting note. After Jesus gives that command, we only read of baptism in the name of Jesus.
16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
It's my personal opinion that this speaks to the unity of the father, the son and the HS.

 

[Wansvic]

The thief on the cross wasn't baptised :

Luke 23:39-43

New Living Translation

39 One of the criminals hanging beside him scoffed, “So you’re the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself—and us, too, while you’re at it!”
40 But the other criminal protested, “Don’t you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die? 41 We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn’t done anything wrong.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Baptism signifies new life in CHRIST yes, following JESUS' example in water baptism yes but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean the person is not saved.

The NT rebirth became a reality for those living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. As such, the thief was not required to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of his sin. However, as scripture reveals, all those living in the NT era must submit to the command in order to have their sins remitted. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

I've heard the argument and its not convincing at all.

"Stop in the name of the law!"
"I did it in the name of love"

Whats the name of the law? law isnt a name!!

You see?

It is talking about the authority, Jesus was given all authority, which is why He told people to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, into the trinity, in the authority of the trinity.

The book of Acts is a historical book like the book of kings, chronicles, and most likely they used the formula for baptism found in Matthew, its just abbreviated as "baptized in the name of Jesus" because it was done according to Jesus' command and authority.
The didache which is dated really early agrees with the formula in Matthew, as does all of church history.

Note Paul's comment regarding the use of a name in administering water baptism:

"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name." 1 Cor 1:13-15


What many fail to realize is that by water baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ the apostles were obeying Jesus' command. (Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Also noteworthy is there is not one occurrence of the apostles repeating the phrase while administering water baptisms. Why? Because they understood Jesus' command and obeyed Him by using the Name that is above all names.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

[DaughterofGOD1625]

The NT rebirth became a reality for those living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. As such, the thief was not required to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of his sin. However, as scripture reveals, all those living in the NT era must submit to the command in order to have their sins remitted. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

I do not have an issue with all that you've said but the question asked was if you died before being baptised would you be saved, and ref my answer which was:

"Also Acts 16:31 "BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shall be SAVED you and your household." Believing is what saves not baptism. Quite frankly I know tons of persons who got baptised and no lie as soon as they got out the water went back to their bad habits. Thankfully many of them fully gave their lives to CHRIST, but it just goes to show Baptism does not save or change you. Your relationship with CHRIST does."

......still stands.....I do believe this scripture came after the thief on the cross.
I'm baptised, I believe highly in its importance, but to imply that...and I'm just giving a scenario here....a person on their death bed, accepted the LORD but did not get baptised isnt saved, I won't sanction that.

 

[Wansvic]

I do not have an issue with all that you've said but the question asked was if you died before being baptised would you be saved, and ref my answer which was:

"Also Acts 16:31 "BELIEVE on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and thou shall be SAVED you and your household." Believing is what saves not baptism. Quite frankly I know tons of persons who got baptised and no lie as soon as they got out the water went back to their bad habits. Thankfully many of them fully gave their lives to CHRIST, but it just goes to show Baptism does not save or change you. Your relationship with CHRIST does."

......still stands.....I do believe this scripture came after the thief on the cross.
I'm baptised, I believe highly in its importance, but to imply that...and I'm just giving a scenario here....a person on their death bed, accepted the LORD but did not get baptised isnt saved, I won't sanction that.

Scripture reveals that obedience to the NT command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is required in order for a person's sins to be remitted. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus made that reality possible for all those living in the NT era. This truth is mentioned in many scriptures.

You mention Acts 16:31. The account indicates the jailer and his household were to believe on the Lord Jesus and in doing so they would be saved. Belief and obedience to baptism go hand in hand. Remember Jesus said preach the gospel. Those would believe and are baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16) The command to be water baptized is part of the gospel message. (Mark 1:1-5)

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house." Acts 16:31-34

 

[DaughterofGOD1625]

Scripture reveals that obedience to the NT command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is required in order for a person's sins to be remitted. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus made that reality possible for all those living in the NT era. This truth is mentioned in many scriptures.

You mention Acts 16:31. The account indicates the jailer and his household were to believe on the Lord Jesus and in doing so they would be saved. Belief and obedience to baptism go hand in hand. Remember Jesus said preach the gospel. Those would believe and are baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16) The command to be water baptized is part of the gospel message. (Mark 1:1-5)

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house." Acts 16:31-34

And again I say I do not have an issue with all that you've said but the question asked was if you died....DIED BEFORE being baptised would you be saved.....
That said I stand by my perspective and you by yours and it's all good. Do have yourself a great day 🙂