the Sabbath

[Inquisitor]

The law is a generic term, there is not one size fits all, the context determines which law.

In Galatians the law is referring to circumcision if one wants to read it context.

Is that what your commentary states?

Paul is merely talking about a one-off physical circumcision in Galatians.

Here are some verses that may contradict your summary of the Galatian error.

Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian (the law).

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Obviously, circumcision is the introductory ritual to full obedience to the whole law.

 

[Cameron143]

A snip here, and a snip there. Here a snip, there a snip. Old McDicer had a knife...owie, owie, ooooooh.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You contradict yourself.

How so?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Is that what your commentary states?

Paul is merely talking about a one-off physical circumcision in Galatians.

Here are some verses that may contradict your summary of the Galatian error.

Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian (the law).

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Obviously, circumcision is the introductory ritual to full obedience to the whole law.

Circumcision is pointing to the ceremonial law- not the Ten Commandments. Paul contrast these laws and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

The law that points out sin the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 can’t be the same law that was added because of sin.

The sacrificial system or ceremonial laws that has to do with animal sacrifices, circumcision etc was added because of sin for breaking the Ten Commandments.

If we are led by the Spirit we wouldn’t be breaking God’s law Romans 8:7-8. We keep God’s law through faith Romans 3:31 and love Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12

 

[Magenta]

How so?

First you say rGalatians 3 read properly in context is about circumcision, then you say
Galatians 3 the law was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.
The law was a shadow pointing forward to Christ, Scripture says this pretty much explicitly.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

First you say reading Galatians 3 read properly in context is about circumcision, then you
say Galatians 3 the law was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.
The law was a shadow pointing forward to Christ, Scripture says this pretty much explicitly.

I said the law will reveal itself in context. The law is a generic term, there are many different laws in the scriptures understanding the differences and allowing the context will reveal the law it’s referring to.

These are not contradictions, the law in Galatians is mainly about circumcision- it literally tells us that. In Galatians he is also referring to animal sacrifices which is the law that was added until the Seed should come. Heb 7, Heb 9, Heb 10 tells us this clearly as animal sacrifices all pointed to Jesus. The blood of animals made nothing perfect, Heb 10:4 the blood of Jesus is perfect for cleansing us of all sin and unrighteousness.

You can’t have the same law when broken that defines sin Romans 7:7, be the same law that was added because of sin, that is a contradiction. All scriptures reconcile- the law of God is perfect Psa 19:7 because God is perfect and it is impossible for Him to write and imperfect law with His own finger. Which is why Jesus and the apostles all kept and taught on His holy and righteous law. Paul is hard to understand, but he never contradicts Jesus. People take a few select verses from Paul and never try to reconcile it with the rest of the scriptures. There is even a warning about it in scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

 

[dlj57]

First you say rGalatians 3 read properly in context is about circumcision, then you say
Galatians 3 the law was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.
The law was a shadow pointing forward to Christ, Scripture says this pretty much explicitly.

There are the moral laws they are embedded in us, Thats why we know the difference between right and wrong, Guilt. There are the Laws of Moses that have 600+ commandments and regulations. Then there is Gods Law that has Ten Commandments.
See how simple that is to explain and understand!

 

[Sipsey]

There are the moral laws they are embedded in us, Thats why we know the difference between right and wrong, Guilt. There are the Laws of Moses that have 600+ commandments and regulations. Then there is Gods Law that has Ten Commandments.
See how simple that is to explain and understand!

You must have a big heart in order to have room for all those to be written upon it.

 

[dlj57]

I will try to ask it again. Please show me in Genesis where it says Abraham kept the Sabbath? Or any verse that say that.


One more question was circumcision of Abraham before or after the covenant was made with God.

To the first question: "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so, on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done." (Genesis 2:1-3). Therefor the Sabbath was created on the 7th day of creation. The moral laws that is in our hearts and minds, we know the difference between right and wrong, like shame or guilt. So yes, the Sabbath was observed from creation.

As fare as the 2nd, I will have to do some research, read the scriptures, and most of all pray, Then I will let you know where I stand.

 

[Gideon300]

How is it clear.
The 10 commandments were given by God as a group of 10. God said 10. Not 9 or 1 or 5 but 10. Those commandments are all through the new Testament, and we are told to keep them.
Why is the Sabbath not relevant today?
It was relevant before sin entered and God gave it to us at creation. When did God take the holy blessing away from the sabbath day?

Don't think that because the multitude believes it, it must be true.
Most of Israel denied Jesus, most people in the dark ages followed tradition rather then truth
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Notice how FEW find it.

I believe the shadow laws have been nailed to the cross but the 10 commandments are not shadow laws. They are moral laws that define righteousness, God's standards don't change.
Some laws could not be changed and that is why Jesus needed to die.

Read God's word. All of it, not just cherry picking what suits your false doctrine. By the way, there is nothing "moral" about the Sabbath.

 

[Magenta]

I said the law will reveal itself in context. The law is a generic term, there are many different laws in the
scriptures understanding the differences and allowing the context will reveal the law it’s referring to.

Actually, what you said was:

The law is a generic term, there is not one size fits all, the context determines which law.
In Galatians the law is referring to circumcision if one wants to read it context.

So you are wrong on all counts.

 

[dlj57]

You must have a big heart in order to have room for all those to be written upon it.

The biggest, for I love my neighbor as I love myself, you know ... just following another one of his Ten Commandments.
Show me the verse that says we now only have 9 commandments.
If the 7th Day Sabbath has been done away with then why are 9 of the Commandments repeated and called out by name throughout the NT
The Sabbath or 4th Commandment is not explicitly named in the NT, but that is in no way proof that it was done away with or changed as some claim. The Sabbath is mentioned and observed 60 times in the NT, Why?

 

[Mem]

The biggest, for I love my neighbor as I love myself, you know ... just following another one of his Ten Commandments.

Why do you call the gospel of grace the license to sin?

 

[dlj57]

I will try to ask it again. Please show me in Genesis where it says Abraham kept the Sabbath? Or any verse that say that.


One more question was circumcision of Abraham before or after the covenant was made with God.

Already been answered, sorry if you missed it or if it was beyond your comprehension.

 

[dlj57]

No, I asked a question.

Can you please show where in the Word of God it says, Abraham kept the sabbath? Please try to suggest one is calling God a liar when they ask you a question. It's rude and trollish.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob kept the Sabbath: Genesis 26:5 (5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Note: Many would be surprised to learn that faithful Abraham was also a Sabbath keeper. The above verse states that he obeyed God and kept his commandments, and the sabbath is the 4th of his Commandments. The Sabbath was created on the 7th day of creation when God rested from his work. God rested, this is where we get the term God or Jesus is our rest, what people and some Christians fail to realize is the word rest as referred to in scripture literally means Sabbath Keeping.
So, if Abraham kept God's law, the Ten Commandments he had to keep the Sabbath, it being the 4th Commandment.

and sorry I shouldn't of said that... I do like the word trollis... LOL
Blessings, Danny

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Actually, what you said was:


So you are wrong on all counts.

I never said it was the only law being referred to, but circumcision is part of the ceremonial law- like animal sacrifices. I said it all needed to be read in context- when we see "law" we need to read the law that is being referred to in context and not add the law we want, because we are not God and adding what we want to the scripture will only hurt us in the long run.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So please answer the 2nd question: can someone be in Christ, sin, and, because of that sin, no longer be in Christ?

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you. I have no interest in belittling or harming you. I'm merely trying to show you that a particular passage of scripture doesn't actually mean what you have stated it does.

This is the help Jesus asks for....

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I'm not asking for the purpose of judgment. I'm not asking you to enumerate your sin. My purpose is for clarification of doctrine. Either you believe you still sin or you believe you do not. I'm asking what you believe is true of yourself. But I'll ask it hypothetically. Are there any sinful people after they are in Christ? And if someone in Christ sins, would they no longer be in Christ?
Yes or no is preferable

I will let scripture answer this...

1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[Sipsey]

The biggest, for I love my neighbor as I love myself, you know ... just following another one of his Ten Commandments.
Show me the verse that says we now only have 9 commandments.
If the 7th Day Sabbath has been done away with then why are 9 of the Commandments repeated and called out by name throughout the NT
The Sabbath or 4th Commandment is not explicitly named in the NT, but that is in no way proof that it was done away with or changed as some claim. The Sabbath is mentioned and observed 60 times in the NT, Why?

Oh,I’m not arguing. I defer to the verse that says we all need to work out our own salvation. Whatever day you wish to call the Sabbath is fine with me.

 

[mailmandan]

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob kept the Sabbath: Genesis 26:5 (5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Note: Many would be surprised to learn that faithful Abraham was also a Sabbath keeper.

The Bible does state that Abraham obeyed God's voice, kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, but the specific charge, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept are not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. It's important to note that the Bible does not provide a comprehensive list of charges, commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept. Therefore, you cannot say with certainty which specific laws Abraham kept so your argument is inconclusive.

You do not hear that Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob kept the Sabbath. The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath but were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?

The above verse states that he obeyed God and kept his commandments, and the sabbath is the 4th of his Commandments. The Sabbath was created on the 7th day of creation when God rested from his work. God rested, this is where we get the term God or Jesus is our rest, what people and some Christians fail to realize is the word rest as referred to in scripture literally means Sabbath Keeping. So, if Abraham kept God's law, the Ten Commandments he had to keep the Sabbath, it being the 4th Commandment.

Your arguments are biased and inconclusive. What commandments Abraham kept are not specifically spelled out in Genesis and although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. All you have are assumptions.

Once again, notice in Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive... 15 - And remember that you (the Israelites) were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you (the Israelites) out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you (the Israelites) to keep the Sabbath day.

Also, in Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and laws, through Your servant Moses.

All you seem to talk about is keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the 4th commandment) as if this is the way you expect to be saved (salvation by works) yet I don't hear you mention anything about the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES. (Romans 1:16)

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God... 21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.