TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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he suffered his whole life and suffered more when he said God why has thou forsaken me. In that moment God placed all the sin of the world on his shoulders. He was separated for a moment.
This message is for all to, Jesus said the words who ever, for everyone
Luke
Who ever tries to keep there life will lose it and who ever loses there life will preserve it
This message is for all to, Jesus said the words who ever, for everyone
Luke
Who ever tries to keep there life will lose it and who ever loses there life will preserve it
@Thunderrr-mental 's Post #953 (page 48), where you asked me:
Yes.
I've posted probably over a hundred posts on that (lol)...
To be brief here in this post (but you can find more in my old posts):
--Matt13:24 (subject) is "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (earthly located)--the time-frame is the "WHEAT" harvest--there are THREE "harvests" in Scripture and in nature. (We ['the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY'] are not the "WHEAT" harvest);
--there are TWO "firstfruit" mentioned in Lev23; the latter of these (v.17, speaking of the "WHEAT" harvest) corresponds with what is said about the [future] "144,000" in Rev14:4; and where v.17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (that is NOT US! [see epistles for my reasoning!]);
--the angels (reapers) will "REAP"... bear in mind that all of Matt13 is speaking of 'still-living' persons at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [and the lead-up] FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age [i.e. "the age [singular] TO COME" chpt 12!]; No 'resurrection' is being spoken of in THIS context; not that there won't be one at that time-slot (Dan12:13 recall; and Rev20:4b);
--the disciples' question of Jesus in the later Matt24:3 context, was BASED ON what HE had ALREADY spoken to them about back here in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--and His response being in two chpts (Matt24-25);
--the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement); whereas the EARLIER harvest, by means of tossing up into the air and blowing away the chaff;
--there is much more I could say, but this post is long enough already... Feel free to ask any questions. I hope you can piece together what I'd said in my earlier post (that you are referencing here) with what I've put here, and get a rough idea of what I'm pointing out.
Thanks
Glad to talk with you!
Yes.
I've posted probably over a hundred posts on that (lol)...
To be brief here in this post (but you can find more in my old posts):
--Matt13:24 (subject) is "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (earthly located)--the time-frame is the "WHEAT" harvest--there are THREE "harvests" in Scripture and in nature. (We ['the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY'] are not the "WHEAT" harvest);
--there are TWO "firstfruit" mentioned in Lev23; the latter of these (v.17, speaking of the "WHEAT" harvest) corresponds with what is said about the [future] "144,000" in Rev14:4; and where v.17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (that is NOT US! [see epistles for my reasoning!]);
--the angels (reapers) will "REAP"... bear in mind that all of Matt13 is speaking of 'still-living' persons at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [and the lead-up] FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age [i.e. "the age [singular] TO COME" chpt 12!]; No 'resurrection' is being spoken of in THIS context; not that there won't be one at that time-slot (Dan12:13 recall; and Rev20:4b);
--the disciples' question of Jesus in the later Matt24:3 context, was BASED ON what HE had ALREADY spoken to them about back here in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--and His response being in two chpts (Matt24-25);
--the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement); whereas the EARLIER harvest, by means of tossing up into the air and blowing away the chaff;
--there is much more I could say, but this post is long enough already... Feel free to ask any questions. I hope you can piece together what I'd said in my earlier post (that you are referencing here) with what I've put here, and get a rough idea of what I'm pointing out.
Thanks
Glad to talk with you!-
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An event which, as you have stated so eloquently and exhaustively (time and time again), takes place at a SPECIFIC TIME chronologically and SPECIFIC PLACE geographically.
Cut and paste from your earlier post:
"Also, in Rev11:1,2, where it speaks of "the temple of God" (with definite article, 'the'), the passage clearly distinguishes "the temple of God" to that of "and THEM that worship THEREIN"--same "the temple of God" that 2Th2:4b speaks to; and which is connected back to that of Dan12:11 "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular] SET UP [H5414]" and there supplying a specific number of "days"...
...which passage Jesus Himself referred back to, in His words of Matt24:15(,21) ("STANDING in the holy place");
notice the connection also between the description of the man of sin in 2Th2:4a[,9.10a] to that found in Dan11:36-37's wilfull king "and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods [same as "mouth" in both Dan7:8,11,20-22 and Rev13:5-7!]... for he shall magnify himself above all" in/during a time-period that ENDS with Daniel being bodily resurrected ('to stand again'--on the earth: "[thou shalt...]...STAND IN THY LOT at the END of the days"... the days referred to in that context--which has NOT YET taken place)."
Cut and paste from your earlier post:
"Also, in Rev11:1,2, where it speaks of "the temple of God" (with definite article, 'the'), the passage clearly distinguishes "the temple of God" to that of "and THEM that worship THEREIN"--same "the temple of God" that 2Th2:4b speaks to; and which is connected back to that of Dan12:11 "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular] SET UP [H5414]" and there supplying a specific number of "days"...
...which passage Jesus Himself referred back to, in His words of Matt24:15(,21) ("STANDING in the holy place");
notice the connection also between the description of the man of sin in 2Th2:4a[,9.10a] to that found in Dan11:36-37's wilfull king "and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods [same as "mouth" in both Dan7:8,11,20-22 and Rev13:5-7!]... for he shall magnify himself above all" in/during a time-period that ENDS with Daniel being bodily resurrected ('to stand again'--on the earth: "[thou shalt...]...STAND IN THY LOT at the END of the days"... the days referred to in that context--which has NOT YET taken place)."
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Yeah, but if people want to think Daniel was resurrected in the Matthew 27 crowd (of the sampling of OT saints), then they can be satisfied that any sequence issues supplied in the texts can be glossed over as merely "unimportant words," and stick with their own "stab-and-grab" method of reading texts... to determine what "words in sentences" mean (TO THEM). lol
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Did all Jerusalem and all Israel CRY OUT TO THEIR MESSIAH for deliverance in 70AD? No.
Did all Israel repent, recognize their Messiah and receive Him for salvation in 70AD? No.
Therefore your opinions and views on eschatology are.......heretical.
Given your heretical views on eschatology, are you out there on the street preaching to Jew and gentile alike of the horrific judgements to come? No.
Are you warning them of the counterfeit beast and his system being prepared? No.
And are you urging them to flee for refuge to Jesus their Savior, who will take them out of the time and place of the wrath to come? No.
All in all a total abject fail on every level. Too bad so sad.
Did all Israel repent, recognize their Messiah and receive Him for salvation in 70AD? No.
Therefore your opinions and views on eschatology are.......heretical.
Given your heretical views on eschatology, are you out there on the street preaching to Jew and gentile alike of the horrific judgements to come? No.
Are you warning them of the counterfeit beast and his system being prepared? No.
And are you urging them to flee for refuge to Jesus their Savior, who will take them out of the time and place of the wrath to come? No.
All in all a total abject fail on every level. Too bad so sad.
This is why you need to study Romans. The point of chapter 11 is to show who true Israel is. It is not historical, ethnic Israel that is in view. It is those who are the children of promise through the seed of Abraham. This doesn't apply to all of Israel, but only some. And it also applies to all who are justified by faith. This is the point Paul has been establishing from late in chapter 3 and chapter 4.
All of spiritual Israel is saved in every generation. You don't care for the term...spiritual Israel. Okay. Use whatever term you like...seed of Abraham, children of promise. But neither of those days terms describe the entire Jewish nation. They speak of those who were spiritually bound to God and justified by faith, just as Abraham was.
All of spiritual Israel is saved in every generation. You don't care for the term...spiritual Israel. Okay. Use whatever term you like...seed of Abraham, children of promise. But neither of those days terms describe the entire Jewish nation. They speak of those who were spiritually bound to God and justified by faith, just as Abraham was.
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This is why you need to study Romans. Over and over again until you actually understand it and how it ties into all prophecy.
Most importantly, God's plan of salvation.....FOR ISRAEL.
Because now you don't. Obvious to everyone.
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Luk 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Most importantly, God's plan of salvation.....FOR ISRAEL.
Because now you don't. Obvious to everyone.
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Luk 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
It's continuation theology. A covenant is ending and a new one is being instituted. That's what the book of Revelation is concerned with. It is also the substance of the book of Acts.
Replacement theology is not a biblical term. Neither is rapture or Trinity. And I understand their use. I have no problem with their use. What I don't understand is why people have no problem with some extra biblical terms but object to the term...spiritual Israel.
And I haven't replaced anyone. Those of Jewish decent can still enter kingdom of God. Justification by faith isn't a new teaching under the new covenant. It is revealed more fully in the NT, but the justified have always walked by faith.
Replacement theology is not a biblical term. Neither is rapture or Trinity. And I understand their use. I have no problem with their use. What I don't understand is why people have no problem with some extra biblical terms but object to the term...spiritual Israel.
And I haven't replaced anyone. Those of Jewish decent can still enter kingdom of God. Justification by faith isn't a new teaching under the new covenant. It is revealed more fully in the NT, but the justified have always walked by faith.
Like I said. No one is denying that the Kingdom of God is in Us. What is being denied is His literal Kingdom.
And IMO, it's about as obvious as Canada being north of the United states of America. Canada is physically there, It's not a "spiritual Canada."
Matt 26:29~~ But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it with you, new, in My Father’s kingdom.”
Luke 22:30~~that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And IMO, it's about as obvious as Canada being north of the United states of America. Canada is physically there, It's not a "spiritual Canada."
Matt 26:29~~ But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it with you, new, in My Father’s kingdom.”
Luke 22:30~~that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The book of Revelation, beginning in chapter 6 and forward is talking about future events to take place leading up to Jesus's return.
The invented term "spiritual Israel" that you are using is a diversion.
Instead, produce a timeline chart of events in Revelation 6-19 that includes the 1260 days, the 42 months, the time/times/ half time.
The invented term "spiritual Israel" that you are using is a diversion.
Instead, produce a timeline chart of events in Revelation 6-19 that includes the 1260 days, the 42 months, the time/times/ half time.
Your assumption is that these must be distant because you believe they are yet to be fulfilled. Luke 21 can be easily seen to have happened 1st century. The Roman assault on Jerusalem did employ swords, scattered the people, and trampled the city. So it is 1st century.
Since you linked the verses, you must believe they coincide. And indeed they do. So how should Romans 11 be understood?
Reread the great commission. It is given to the Apostles. THEY are tasked with making disciples of the nations. At this point the world or age will be over. Ok. What's the game plan? Acts...begin in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, and then the rest. The book of Acts records this. Revelation 2 and 3 confirm it. Churches were in all the known world. The end of the age was come. The time of the Gentiles was fulfilled. Jews did begin responding to the gospel. And all who did were saved.
The audience of Romans, Acts, Luke, Matthew, and Revelation are all 1st century Jews. The application of the teachings have relevance for us today, but must first be understood in the 1st century context. Your explanations are void of this reality.
Since you linked the verses, you must believe they coincide. And indeed they do. So how should Romans 11 be understood?
Reread the great commission. It is given to the Apostles. THEY are tasked with making disciples of the nations. At this point the world or age will be over. Ok. What's the game plan? Acts...begin in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, and then the rest. The book of Acts records this. Revelation 2 and 3 confirm it. Churches were in all the known world. The end of the age was come. The time of the Gentiles was fulfilled. Jews did begin responding to the gospel. And all who did were saved.
The audience of Romans, Acts, Luke, Matthew, and Revelation are all 1st century Jews. The application of the teachings have relevance for us today, but must first be understood in the 1st century context. Your explanations are void of this reality.
Yes, Luke 21:12-24a,b indeed speaks of the events surrounding 70ad. (As do Matt24:2 / Mk13:2 / Lk21:5-6... and Matt22:7... Lk19:41-44.)
[v.24c of Lk21 continues on from there and isn't concluded until Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, yet future].
These events ^ (the events of 70ad) are said to take place "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of birth pangs (per v.12).
The beginning of birth pangs are described in vv.8-11 [/Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8].
[v.24c of Lk21 continues on from there and isn't concluded until Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19, yet future].
These events ^ (the events of 70ad) are said to take place "BEFORE ALL" the beginning of birth pangs (per v.12).
The beginning of birth pangs are described in vv.8-11 [/Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8].
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I disagree with your initial premise.
And spiritual Israel isn't meant to confuse anything. It's merely a reference to those whom the promises made to Abraham apply to. It means the same as not all of Israel is of Israel. It applies to all who like Abraham are justified by faith. Are you suggesting that there is a means by which Israel gets saved that isn't through faith?
As far as the timetable of the 1st century, still working that out. But it doesn't really matter what I share. You believe Revelation is about the end of the world and not primarily about the end of a covenant.
And spiritual Israel isn't meant to confuse anything. It's merely a reference to those whom the promises made to Abraham apply to. It means the same as not all of Israel is of Israel. It applies to all who like Abraham are justified by faith. Are you suggesting that there is a means by which Israel gets saved that isn't through faith?
As far as the timetable of the 1st century, still working that out. But it doesn't really matter what I share. You believe Revelation is about the end of the world and not primarily about the end of a covenant.
No. There will still be "1000 years" following Christ's "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19; so the part that Rev1:1's "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" speaks only to the future, specific, LIMITED time-period we commonly call the 7-yr Tribulation Period (1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 [1:1 "SHOW UNTO his servants" [7:3] / "SHOW YOU [John]" 4:1+]), concluding at Christ's return to the earth Rev19; So "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" is FOLLOWED by "the age [singular] to come" (Matt12), earthly-located also (aka the earthly MK age; Rev19:15b speaks of what is "FUTURE" to Rev19's return to the earth, "SHALL [future tense]..." [etc]).
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