TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

[douggg]

This is a nice simple question

The Jews recognise that a prayer sacrifice is all that's needed in temple these days.

So why would they start doing animal sacrifice in the temple again.

perhaps my buddy @cv5 could give us an answer 😊.

when he's finished rolling around the floor in fits of hysteria, barking like Ebenezer Scrooge that is.

What the Jews believe is that in the absence of a temple that their prayers would act in lieu of animal sacrifices as a make do alternative until a temple is present.

The Jews cannot build a temple because of the issue of the Dome of the Rock and the muslim presence on the temple mount.

That will change once the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 will take place. In the wake of that event, the prince who shall come from north and west of Israel will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. And anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet.

He will then confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years by having the law of Moses read from the temple mount, as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 (which contain the 7 years requirement) to begin the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

Then the temple complex construction will begin, and he will be a part of it - Just as the Jews (Judaism) believe about one of the functions of the messiah.

To get the animals sacrifices and other temple observances going as quickly as possible, the initial construction will be downsized with plans to expand in stages.

The animal sacrifices will thus be able to begin on day 220 of the 7 year 2520 days timeline. Which day 220 will begin the 2300 day count of Daniel 8 regarding the little horn person and the stopping of the daily sacrifice, and desolation of the temple (desolate from worship and praise of God).

 

[Cameron143]

Your grasp of the content and reason for the book of Hosea is also an epic fail.....
You know......all that stuff about God's redemption of His adulterous wife Israel?
A theme that undergirds more than half of the OT if you did not know.

Hos 14:4
I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

Hos 14:5
I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.

Hos 14:6
His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.

Hos 14:7
They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.

Hos 14:8
Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.

Hos 14:9
Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

Israel typifies all believers in Hosea.

 

[iamsoandso]

Based on verse 5?

Oh well no not verse 5 that would be during the Mill.(you said in post #444 you believed we were "in it" currently)... I tried to correct my post in #447 to reflect only "after" the Mill.

 

[douggg]

Under what covenant?

Initially, the 7 years begin with the confirmation by the Antichrist of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Once the Jews' mistake of thinking that the Antichrist is their messiah falls flat on its face when he exposes himself as the man of sin in 2Thessalonians2:4 - they will turn to Jesus, and embrace the new covenant in Christ, which is the gospel of salvation, in Revelation 12:10.

 

[Cameron143]

Another epic fail as regards your understanding.

Tragic. But I will do my best to keep the leaven of ignorance from further damaging the Body.

So pray tell...how many covenants are active today?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If you claim the woman is the church. Then does it make sense that woman (the church) gave birth to the man-child (the church) ?

The church gave birth to the church? no.

lol. The church not only gave birth to the church, but also [gave birth] to the remnant of her seed: the church.




[not! lol]








There are THREE distinct "characters" in both Rev12:4-5,16-17 and Micah 5:3--"the woman [/she which travaileth]"... "the man child"... "the remnant of her seed [/of his brethren]"... not ALL THREE characters are "the church".

But I do agree that "the man child" / "the male [G730 - arsena / arren (Rv12:13)]" pertains to more than just Jesus Himself (but also His "Body").





["Therefore will he give them up, until ..." Micah 5:3]

 

[Cameron143]

Initially, the 7 years begin with the confirmation by the Antichrist of the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Once the Jews' mistake of thinking that the Antichrist is their messiah falls flat on its face when he exposes himself as the man of sin in 2Thessalonians2:4 - they will turn to Jesus, and embrace the new covenant in Christ, which is the gospel of salvation, in Revelation 12:10.

The new covenant doesn't deal with nations but individuals. No reason God wouldn't accept as many as believe both then and now and at every point in the future until the end.

Why isn't the verse dealing with those who believed in the 1st century?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;






Romans 11:27 - For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [see Isaiah 27:9,12-13 / Matt24:29-31 and Dan9:24 parts]




Hosea 5:14-6:3 -

14For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

15I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

What the Jews believe is that in the absence of a temple that their prayers would act in lieu of animal sacrifices as a make do alternative until a temple is present.

The Jews cannot build a temple because of the issue of the Dome of the Rock and the muslim presence on the temple mount.

That will change once the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 will take place. In the wake of that event, the prince who shall come from north and west of Israel will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. And anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet.

He will then confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years by having the law of Moses read from the temple mount, as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 (which contain the 7 years requirement) to begin the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

Then the temple complex construction will begin, and he will be a part of it - Just as the Jews (Judaism) believe about one of the functions of the messiah.

To get the animals sacrifices and other temple observances going as quickly as possible, the initial construction will be downsized with plans to expand in stages.

The animal sacrifices will thus be able to begin on day 220 of the 7 year 2520 days timeline. Which day 220 will begin the 2300 day count of Daniel 8 regarding the little horn person and the stopping of the daily sacrifice, and desolation of the temple (desolate from worship and praise of God).

you could attribute the gog/ magog war to many wars already.

I believe many have lol. Maybe you've missed that one already.

But seeing as where back on topic prophecy seems to say the temple that will be defiled will be the temple that the lord rebuilt, and not some mosque where they perform animal sacrifice.

That kind of temple being rebuilt would not matter to the lord, he has already torn it down and built a new one 😊

 

[douggg]

The new covenant doesn't deal with nations but individuals. No reason God wouldn't accept as many as believe both then and now and at every point in the future until the end.

Why isn't the verse dealing with those who believed in the 1st century?

The new covenant does deal with individuals, I agree. But there is also the application to the nation of Israel. The embracing of the new covenant in Jesus will be en-masse by the Jews in Revelation 12:10.


Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[douggg]

you could attribute the gog/ magog war to many wars already.

I believe many have lol. Maybe you've missed that one already.

In Ezekiel 39 is the framework for end time events to take place during the 7 year 70th week.

Gog/Magog - then the 7 years verses 9-10 - then Armageddon verses 17-20 - Jesus Himself speaking in the text verses 21-29, having returned to this earth.

 

[Cameron143]

Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;






Romans 11:27 - For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [see Isaiah 27:9,12-13 / Matt24:29-31 and Dan9:24 parts]




Hosea 5:14-6:3 -

14For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

15I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

This all describes the new covenant and the death and resurrection and Christ.

 

[cv5]

Israel typifies all believers in Hosea.

One brazenly erroneous 6 letter statement does not sound doctrine make......

 

[Cameron143]

The new covenant does deal with individuals, I agree. But there is also the application to the nation of Israel. The embracing of the new covenant in Jesus will be en-masse by the Jews in Revelation 12:10.


Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I agree. But Israel is all believers. And they are still coming that way. That's why the new covenant was given.

 

[cv5]

This all describes the new covenant and the death and resurrection and Christ.

So you DO believe that the Church is Israel.

Epic fail.

 

[Cameron143]

One brazenly erroneous 6 letter statement does not sound doctrine make......

You seem more interested in a particular people group than every nation, kindred, tribe and tongue.

 

[Cameron143]

So you DO believe that the Church is Israel.

Epic fail.

All believers in all times are Israel spiritually speaking.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

In Ezekiel 39 is the framework for end time events to take place during the 7 year 70th week.

Gog/Magog - then the 7 years verses 9-10 - then Armageddon verses 17-20 - Jesus Himself speaking in the text verses 21-29, having returned to this earth.

revelation 12 to 14 is a long lasting battles between a new kingdom on earth which is the Spirit of Jesus living in people and growing, verses a a kingdom of the spirit of Satan living in people.

This kingdom of satan has been losing ground since The victorious day of Jesus.

This is the long lasting kingdom interlude, where Christ's kingdom becomes the kingdoms of the world which includes the the shrinking of Satan's kingdoms.

Revelation 12 to 14 confirms all that, and is a long battle that has been happening since Jesus was victorious.

This is also when Satan started to defile the new temple. Which is confirmed by the fact he is accusing Gods children day and night and defiling there temple day and night.

This is the longest and most difficult kingdoms interlude to understand.

But John hears in rev 12 to 14 that the kingdoms of the world is to become the kingdoms of Christ.

This is the great tribulation. It's been happening since the victorious day of Jesus.

The reason why it's been happening is because Jesus gave people direct acces to his kingdom from the Satan kingdom.

Both kingdoms are now all over the world and as you see there is world wide conflict.

It's not rocket science friend 😊

 

[douggg]

I agree. But Israel is all believers. And they are still coming that way. That's why the new covenant was given.

Romans 11:25-28 is making a distinction between Gentiles and the nation of Israel. Israel in those verses is not all believes. In the prior verss of Romans 11.7....

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Most of Israel is blinded to the gospel. We see that today regarding the Jews. Believers are not blind.

So read....

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[cv5]

All believers in all times are Israel spiritually speaking.

Except that (as @TheDivineWatermark has pointed out), the Church is NEVER, EVER referred to as the peculiar sons of Jacob. Ever.

And the Church is NEVER seen from Rev 6 thru Rev 18. Gap filled by Israelite preachers. Then it shows up in Rev 19.
The distinction could not be more stark.

And how in the world could you think that the Church is Israel given these passages? Since when was the Church around to partake of the FIRST COVENANT, were children of Israelite patriarchs, and came out of Egypt?

Heb 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8
For finding fault with THEM (NOT US!), he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.