The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Cameron143]

But how would you really know it is poor spiritual discernment? By what standard? God told me in a dream or vision or by some prayer? No, it is by His Word that we know when a person has bad doctrines. 10 different people can say they are led by the Spirit to come to an understanding of a particular passage and yet they all can come away with different interpretations or understandings. Only one person can have the correct understanding, and I believe God had written it down so that we are without excuse. Jesus even said in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. You have to have the right set of Jesus’ words for them to judge you. Modern Bibles remove certain words by our Lord Jesus. Modern Bibles even attack our Lord and make Him appear to sin. That’s how bad and corrupt they are. If any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. What words of Jesus do many believers not accept today? Oh, words from our Lord like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, and Luke 10:25-28. Even Paul said that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord’s commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Many do not even understand 1 Timothy 5:8 because they reject what it plainly says. We are living in the last days indeed where many will not endure sound doctrine. Men shall be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. They will turn God’s grace into a license for immorality or licentiousness (Jude 1:4).

I agree it's by His word. But 10 different people can read a passage and have 10 different interpretations. So it isn't simply the word of God. It is the word of God discerned correctly.

 

[Dino246]

KJB

Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ESV

Romans 10:9 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Here might be a difference, in the KJB, Paul is stating in respect, the title name of Jesus which is ‘Lord’. Generally, anyone can call that name or confess to it. This confession is to acknowledge his work at the cross resulted in the preaching of the gospel or the word of faith as in v.8. In v.12 is a clear rendering that there’s no difference between the Jew and the Greek (Gentile) to normally call on him being the Lord. Paul is stating that acknowledging Christ for what he did with your mouth and believing in the Lord Jesus in your heart as Saviour will be saved.

Confessing him ‘Jesus is Lord’ is good but as per context, the confession ‘Jesus is Lord’ in ESV makes it redundant, to say the least since both Jews and Gentiles after all, can at any time call on him being “…the same Lord is Lord of all... “ Romans 10:12 ESV

So, the better rendering, I believe is found in KJB as far as translation is concerned.

Since the text doesn't actually unpack what "confess the Lord Jesus" means, your position is based on speculation.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I strongly suspect you mean 2 Peter, not 1 Peter. Since 2 Peter 1:20-21 is talking about prophecy specifically, and not Scripture in general, whatever you think about it is limited to that context.

Right, my bad. 2 Peter 1:20-21. Thank you for catching that.

But those passages aren't saying anything about the writing of Scripture under inspiration.

How would you understand the word "justified" in Scripture?
You would use Scripture to help you to see how it is used as a whole in Scripture.
Similarly, Job 32:8 gives us an understanding behind what the word "inspiration" actually means.
In fact, the meaning fits the context of 2 Timothy 3:16.

The bolded part is speculative, not fact-based. Everything you wrote after that depends on your speculation being sound, and it is impossible to prove that. A machine can make a more accurate copy now than a human can; would that mean the machine is "under the inspiration of the Almighty"? Um, no. It is the original message that is inspired, and that inspiration is preserved through copying and translation. There is no other "inspiration" until the believer reads the text and seeks the Spirit's help to understand it.

The King James Bible was guided by God's hand because of the many evidences I have already shown to you before that you have rejected. I provided 10 categories that prove the KJB is the Pure Word of God for today. Granted, I even have 101 Reasons for the KJB if that is not enough. But I am not even sure they would convince you because you appear to be hardened against the truth on this Bible topic.

Go back and read the 1611 KJV Translators' Preface to the Reader. Carefully.

I do not regard the KJB preface, the marginal notes, or what they thought outside the translation work itself as having any bearing.
God is still able to operate in a person's life despite them thinking carnally or incorrectly at other times. Why do you think Jesus said to Peter, "Get behind me Satan?" Yet, at another time, Jesus said that the Father revealed to Peter that He was the Son of God? Again, men can at times operate by God and his working and at others times this is not the case. So this is not a good argument.

 

[John146]

It is obviously outdated. Nobody uses that style of English unless they are a thespian in a Shakespearean play or a classical literature professor.

It's not outdated if millions still use it daily. Anyway, it is correct English regardless of the "American" English that is spoken today.

 

[John146]

Again, look at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Does it say, "the Lord Jesus" or "Jesus is Lord"?

Yep, and...

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Unbelievers cannot call Jesus Lord. Exactly my point.

 

[Dino246]

10 different people can say they are led by the Spirit to come to an understanding of a particular passage and yet they all can come away with different interpretations or understandings. Only one person can have the correct understanding

Or none of them.

Also, God can legitimately speak through His word ten different ways to ten different people, because those people are in ten different contexts.

Jesus even said in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. You have to have the right set of Jesus’ words for them to judge you.

No, you don't. God will judge you by the words you have; they need neither be complete nor completely accurate.

Modern Bibles remove certain words by our Lord Jesus.

Modern translations may not include words that the KJV includes, but that is a different issue.

Modern Bibles even attack our Lord and make Him appear to sin.

Hogwash and codswollop.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I agree it's by His word. But 10 different people can read a passage and have 10 different interpretations. So it isn't simply the word of God. It is the word of God discerned correctly.

Yes, you do need the Spirit to discern correctly, but if the Word is corrupted that is not going to help any. God will not guide a person to believe a false Modern Bible because God will show them all the false things that are in them. God will guide a person to believe God's words and not to question them like what Textual Criticism does.

 

[Dino246]

It's not outdated if millions still use it daily. Anyway, it is correct English regardless of the "American" English that is spoken today.

That millions of people read the KJV today does not make its language current. "Correct English"... by what standard of "correct"?

 

[Dino246]

Yep, and...

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Unbelievers cannot call Jesus Lord. Exactly my point.

Which says nothing about the KJV.

 

[Cameron143]

Yep, and...

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Unbelievers cannot call Jesus Lord. Exactly my point.

What about those in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, you do need the Spirit to discern correctly, but if the Word is corrupted that is not going to help any. God will not guide a person to believe a false Modern Bible because God will show them all the false things that are in them. God will guide a person to believe God's words and not to question them like what Textual Criticism does.

Sure. But the larger problem isn't then the translation, but discernment; which is all I was saying in the first place.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

No, you don't. God will judge you by the words you have; they need neither be complete nor completely accurate.

This is insane. That's totally a self imploding belief that has no basis even in reality.
God's words do not have to be completely accurate in order to judge us?
Okay. Think about how this does not work in reality.
If you got pulled over for going over 45 miles per hour, and you were going 50, yet the sign said 65 miles per hour, and you got a ticket, whereby you would have to pay money, you would be upset. Yet, in other areas, the cops respected the signs but not in the one you got pulled over at. In other words, You cannot trust what the speed limit sign said in all instances or what kind of judgment they would give if you could not trust what the sign said. That would be like saying God's words are not trustworthy. This is why such a belief is silly and self defeating. You could never truly know what was true or false unless it was glaringly obvious it would be something that God would not inspire men to write.

 

[John146]

Which says nothing about the KJV.

Correct, it shows how the new versions are wrong.

 

[fredoheaven]

Since the text doesn't actually unpack what "confess the Lord Jesus" means, your position is based on speculation.

It is rather based on what the context is.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Sure. But the larger problem isn't then the translation, but discernment; which is all I was saying in the first place.

That is not correct. Spiritual discernment will lead you to the one correct Bible and not false Bibles. There can only be one Bible just like there is only one God. God is not the author of confusion among the saints.

 

[Dino246]

How would you understand the word "justified" in Scripture?
You would use Scripture to help you to see how it is used as a whole in Scripture.
Similarly, Job 32:8 gives us an understanding behind what the word "inspiration" actually means.
In fact, the meaning fits the context of 2 Timothy 3:16.

While it may align with Paul's words, there is no logical connection between the two. Elihu is not talking about inspiration to write Scripture, period. It's simply not relevant.

Consider these:

Genesis 1:3 - 5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

John 1:4-5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

These three passages should be enough to show you that your approach, while not completely wrong, is subject to erroneous conclusions. Just because a word is used in one place doesn't mean another use of it carries all the same meaning, nuance, implication, and application as the original.

The King James Bible was guided by God's hand because of the many evidences I have already shown to you before that you have rejected. I provided 10 categories that prove the KJB is the Pure Word of God for today. Granted, I even have 101 Reasons for the KJB if that is not enough.

You have the cart before the horse. That aside, I do indeed reject your position and I will continue to do so, because the KJV has errors, which fatally refutes the wacky idea that its translation was inspired.

But I am not even sure they would convince you because you appear to be hardened against the truth on this Bible topic.

I am firmly set against rank error being promoted as Christian truth.

I do not regard the KJB preface, the marginal notes, or what they thought outside the translation work itself as having any bearing.

Since you refuse to read it, your ignorance is your problem.

God is still able to operate in a person's life despite them thinking carnally or incorrectly at other times.

And yet, somehow God's Spirit is unable to work unless the person has the "pure, preserved word of God" in their hands? Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Sure. But the larger problem isn't then the translation, but discernment; which is all I was saying in the first place.

Again, discernment is not the standard. The Bible is the standard ultimately. To say that discernment is the standard is Spiritism or the New Age. God has written down His word for us to believe in so that we can be saved and do His will. Yes, one needs to have the Spirit, but this is if we believe and obey His Words first.

Acts 5:32
"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

How do we obey God?
By keeping His words as found in the Bible and not by some New Age thinking or prayer, or vision or dream, or by some voice talking to us, etcetera.

 

[Dino246]

It is rather based on what the context is.

But it is not stated, therefore it's your interpretation. Given that, it carries no more weight than any other interpretation.

 

[Dino246]

Correct, it shows how the new versions are wrong.

That doesn't even begin to follow. You decry the "new versions" without sound reasoning.

 

[Dino246]

This is insane. That's totally a self imploding belief that has no basis even in reality.
God's words do not have to be completely accurate in order to judge us?
Okay. Think about how this does not work in reality.
If you got pulled over for going over 45 miles per hour, and you were going 50, yet the sign said 65 miles per hour, and you got a ticket, whereby you would have to pay money, you would be upset. Yet, in other areas, the cops respected the signs but not in the one you got pulled over at. In other words, You cannot trust what the speed limit sign said in all instances or what kind of judgment they would give if you could not trust what the sign said. That would be like saying God's words are not trustworthy. This is why such a belief is silly and self defeating. You could never truly know what was true or false unless it was glaringly obvious it would be something that God would not inspire men to write.

Meaningless bafflegab.