everything is predestined?
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Your looking at this through the natural. What God knew Adam and Eve would fall and well just left that fact out didn't want to tell them? Oooh yes that classic "He was just testing them". Yet He knows all It's what it says. Yet He GOD that knows all had to ask, "Where are you?" Had to ask "who told you" Had to ask "did you eat of the tree I told you not to?" Hmm had to ask Satan where ya coming from? Had to come down to see if the cries He had heard were true, if not He would know. Shall I go on? Yet from Gen-Rev He does in fact knows all!
So yes were talking about GOD there is nothing that is new to Him. Yet this is one of those things we here do not see nor understand. To think God didn't know the moment He created Satan (just a title) that sin would be found in Him? No He didn't. Did He not say "From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways until wickedness was found in you". Found? Not my words
Some do like to think they as human living in a sinful word sinful flesh duh studied for years and yeah they know. Sure ok.. . " For now we see through a glass, darkly". We all see through that today but not forever. Just think about all the things GOD will give us do for us and amp that up by billions and billions of people yet what He has in-store for us no man can imagine.
We can know were not where GOD wanted us we made this choice right? A woman trying to hard to get to a store she likes yet seems the world won't let her. So she ends up at this store she does not like. She smiles at the cashier checking out. That cashier? She think to her self "she must be a Christian, just look at that smile". Thats all that girl did was smile and yes she was a Christian. Because of that one smile that cashier that coming weekend got saved. See she had to also move in to this apartment building that was not the best, she had no choice. The moment she walked in to that apartment what she never saw never heard was all the demons screaming fleeing.
So I can say YES and agree yet say I don't. That girl made every choice GOD never forced her. Yet He had the right to move around her because she was His and she surrendered. Never going to see the great reward she has .. thinking she some how missed GOD got the wrong job or in the wrong place yet right where He wanted her.
So yes were talking about GOD there is nothing that is new to Him. Yet this is one of those things we here do not see nor understand. To think God didn't know the moment He created Satan (just a title) that sin would be found in Him? No He didn't. Did He not say "From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways until wickedness was found in you". Found? Not my words
Some do like to think they as human living in a sinful word sinful flesh duh studied for years and yeah they know. Sure ok.. . " For now we see through a glass, darkly". We all see through that today but not forever. Just think about all the things GOD will give us do for us and amp that up by billions and billions of people yet what He has in-store for us no man can imagine.
We can know were not where GOD wanted us we made this choice right? A woman trying to hard to get to a store she likes yet seems the world won't let her. So she ends up at this store she does not like. She smiles at the cashier checking out. That cashier? She think to her self "she must be a Christian, just look at that smile". Thats all that girl did was smile and yes she was a Christian. Because of that one smile that cashier that coming weekend got saved. See she had to also move in to this apartment building that was not the best, she had no choice. The moment she walked in to that apartment what she never saw never heard was all the demons screaming fleeing.
So I can say YES and agree yet say I don't. That girl made every choice GOD never forced her. Yet He had the right to move around her because she was His and she surrendered. Never going to see the great reward she has .. thinking she some how missed GOD got the wrong job or in the wrong place yet right where He wanted her.
Are you really a sheep? or are you a human being? You do realise that metaphors are just as much figures of speech as similes are, don't you.
There is no difference between saying someone "is a sheep" or "is like a sheep". There is no difference between a figurative flock of sheep becoming a figurative horse, and figurative sheep becoming figurative goats.
Your argument here is utterly spurious.
There is no difference between saying someone "is a sheep" or "is like a sheep". There is no difference between a figurative flock of sheep becoming a figurative horse, and figurative sheep becoming figurative goats.
Your argument here is utterly spurious.
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Repenting is not limited to turning from moral failures. It simply means to change one's mind. If I am on my way to the dentist and find the traffic is jammed, I can repent, change my mind about going to the dentist, turn around and go home. Yes God literally repents. there is no need to figuratise statements about God that make perfect sense when taken literally.
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He plays dice with evil. God always corrects evil and turns it into the good if it can be done. We suffer evil and evil beings so that we can develop spiritually.
Job was not totally unfortunate to have Satan curse him, but he was even more fortunate that God told Satan to not snuff out his life. Job embarrassed all his friends in his near-death experience and afterward.
Job was not totally unfortunate to have Satan curse him, but he was even more fortunate that God told Satan to not snuff out his life. Job embarrassed all his friends in his near-death experience and afterward.
It's amazing how the same gnostic semi-Manichaeans who will merrily cut texts from all over the Bible out of context and paste them together to make the Bible sound like it teaches divine fatalism, will insist on the need to have serious regard for ever-stretched context when arguing against proof-texts that on their face contradict divine fatalism; context to them meaning another cut and pasted text from the same book, but maybe a chapter and a half away.
I agree that God is not a liar and he wants no one to perish. And I agree Satan is a deceiver and he weasels his way into all of Gods goodness and purity.
I also believe Jesus agreed to be a sacrifice before the foundation of the world because the father needed a fix and Jesus volunteered! Praise the Lamb of God ..Holy is the lamb
I also believe Jesus agreed to be a sacrifice before the foundation of the world because the father needed a fix and Jesus volunteered! Praise the Lamb of God ..Holy is the lamb
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We suffer evil and evil beings because we live in a world shared by beings who misuse their free-will / free desire to freely desire / freely will to steal, kill and destroy what is good. Fortunately, in Christ we have been given the resources, weaponry and authority to destroy the works of the devil and quench the devil's fiery darts. A big problem the church has, due to fatalistic Manichaeism followed by some branches of it, is that many are passive accepting the works of the devil we should be destroying with God's weapons, and are embracing the evil as God's planned will for his secret purposes.
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Anyone who loves and comes to the Lord has been called. Were they chosen before the foundation of the world? Yes, I believe they were, because of God’s foreknowledge of each individual. Did they choose Jesus in this earth age because they we’re chosen before the foundation of the world? Yes, in my opinion. Everyone must choose Christ today, and everyone will be given that opportunity. And yet, there are some who will never choose Him.
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 6:35-37,40 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
- John 3:16-17 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
- John 6:35-37,40 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
- John 3:16-17 (KJV)
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And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
- Romans 8:28-31,33 (KJV)
- Romans 8:28-31,33 (KJV)
You are funny. So, God was grieved at the wickedness of men and handed them all over to the principalities to let them do their will and destroy mankind in a flood, but only Noah found favour in God's eyes? Why did he? Because God unilaterally infused Noah with God's own faith, so that God could then justly be pleased with him and bestow salvation on him and his family? Please!
Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son in order that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
And those whom He predestined He also called and those whom He called He also justified and those whom He justified He also glorified.
This is a call to be the church, the people of God in the earth, a call to sonship, to discipleship, a call to become like Jesus.
It is not a call per se to be saved
Paul links this foreknowledge, predestination and election to the call of Abraham. Abe was called to be a blessing to the families of the world. To be an instrument of salvation.
It does not exclude anybody from being saved. Abe was called, Lot was not, yet Lot was saved. If there had been other righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah they would have been saved.
We are called to be a city set upon a hill, to exclude everybody? NO that we might be a beacon of hope for the lost and weary, a place of succour and shelter.
That's what we are called for.
For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son in order that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
And those whom He predestined He also called and those whom He called He also justified and those whom He justified He also glorified.
This is a call to be the church, the people of God in the earth, a call to sonship, to discipleship, a call to become like Jesus.
It is not a call per se to be saved
Paul links this foreknowledge, predestination and election to the call of Abraham. Abe was called to be a blessing to the families of the world. To be an instrument of salvation.
It does not exclude anybody from being saved. Abe was called, Lot was not, yet Lot was saved. If there had been other righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah they would have been saved.
We are called to be a city set upon a hill, to exclude everybody? NO that we might be a beacon of hope for the lost and weary, a place of succour and shelter.
That's what we are called for.
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The entirety of the content and volume of God's Word can (and should!) be traced back to Genesis 3.
And every following spectacle and drama and action and reaction has an ultimate purpose:
To REFUTE and DISPROVE and DENOUNCE the lie of Satan (this lie declaring falsely that men and angels and all that which lives in God's sight does not have free will). And thereby glorifying God, His words being truth, His holiness being unimpeachable, His fairness and right to render justice being unchallenged.
And we must never lose sight of the fact that this drama is ON DISPLAY to the Angelic host (both fallen and unfallen), who are observing the entire drama play out. Who are witnesses for all eternity.
Another thought:
Satan and his host were created perfect, powerful, beautiful, righteous and without sin. And yet they CHOSE to rebel.
We (mere sons of Adam, created lower than the angels), were created INHERENTLY SINFUL......weak, dumb, ugly, sinful.
Yet, despite our lowly estate.......WE (Christians) BELIEVED GOD and abide, trusting in His mercy, goodness, truth of His word and promises, and earnestly await our final redemption. Despite the rigors and toil and suffering of this life.
How does that comparison make the Trinity look to all of the onlooking witnesses? Glorious.
How does that make us look? Pretty good. And rightfully justified.
How does that make the fallen angelic host look? Not so good. And rightfully deserving judgement.
And every following spectacle and drama and action and reaction has an ultimate purpose:
To REFUTE and DISPROVE and DENOUNCE the lie of Satan (this lie declaring falsely that men and angels and all that which lives in God's sight does not have free will). And thereby glorifying God, His words being truth, His holiness being unimpeachable, His fairness and right to render justice being unchallenged.
And we must never lose sight of the fact that this drama is ON DISPLAY to the Angelic host (both fallen and unfallen), who are observing the entire drama play out. Who are witnesses for all eternity.
Another thought:
Satan and his host were created perfect, powerful, beautiful, righteous and without sin. And yet they CHOSE to rebel.
We (mere sons of Adam, created lower than the angels), were created INHERENTLY SINFUL......weak, dumb, ugly, sinful.
Yet, despite our lowly estate.......WE (Christians) BELIEVED GOD and abide, trusting in His mercy, goodness, truth of His word and promises, and earnestly await our final redemption. Despite the rigors and toil and suffering of this life.
How does that comparison make the Trinity look to all of the onlooking witnesses? Glorious.
How does that make us look? Pretty good. And rightfully justified.
How does that make the fallen angelic host look? Not so good. And rightfully deserving judgement.
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Hello FGC .
. Oh, I can see why you think that, especially in light
of the all those in authority in the previous line, and yet:
Acts 17:30
Ah, I did not see this before responding to the other.
Do you not believe God wants all people everywhere to repent and come to Him?
. Oh, I can see why you think that, especially in light of the all those in authority in the previous line, and yet:
Acts 17:30
Ah, I did not see this before responding to the other.
Do you not believe God wants all people everywhere to repent and come to Him?
If you are referring to 2 Pet 3:9, I believe Peter is addressing his warning to them that have obtained like precious faith (2 Pet 1:1).
The natural man/kind, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not, and even, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot receive (understand), and thinks they are foolishness, until he has been born again spiritually (Eph 2:1-5).