The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Magenta]

You have rather thorough misunderstanding of the motive and purpose of textual criticism.

Firstly, no matter how much you want to deny it, Erasmus asked exactly the same question: "Did God really say...?"
What you don't seem to grasp is the vast difference in motivation behind the question. When the serpent asked
Eve that question, his purpose was to get her to doubt the validity of God's word. When Erasmus or any other
textual critic asks the question, they are wanting to ensure the validity of the written word, asking, "Is that
what God really said, or has the message been modified somehow since it was written?"

Exceptionally insightful, Dino! .

 

[Dino246]

Justification comes by the faith of Jesus Christ.

We disagree. I have shown you in the past how your position is untenable, but you refuse to see.

 

[Dino246]

Well, your opinion does not always reign true. You do know that, right? The two versions say very, very different things. Surely you can see this.

Given that I just told you they say the same thing, your response is silly.

 

[TheLearner]

I have seen a KJ onlyist admit there are errors in the KJ Bible while claiming it is superior to all others. Which really seems self-contradictory! I got into a discussion with another KJ onlyist (who is no longer here) about how a sentence at the beginning of a chapter of Daniel (can't remember which one) was put together and what it meant. He was insisting that the way other versions were worded, other versions were saying that the unsaved would be raised to life everlasting, which was completely wrong. He repeatedly kept pointing to that one sentence, so I went to the chapter to get the context, and saw that he was completely misreading the other versions, for it was plain they were not saying what he claimed they were. What's more, it became apparent to me after going over this with him for a while, that had the tables been turned and the KJV worded the way the others were, and the others worded the way the KJ was, he would be making the very same argument to defend the authority and superiority of the KJV over the others!!! I had found him to be quite reasonable and even gracious on many topics before that, and was able to mostly keep his "cool" when under fire, but realized he was blinded on this issue to be so adamant in his view when he was so clearly wrong. He was banned sometime after that. He must have lost his cool. Oh, I was sorry to see that.

Daniel 12

Easy-to-Read Version



12 “Daniel, at that time the great prince Michael will stand up. Michael is in charge of your people. There will be a time of much trouble, the worst time since nations have been on earth. But Daniel, at that time every one of your people whose name is found written in the book of life will be saved. 2 There are many who are dead and buried.[a] Some of them will wake up and live forever, but others will wake up to shame and disgrace forever. 3 The wise people will shine as bright as the sky. Those who teach others to live right will shine like stars forever and ever.

Says the same as Matthew 25.

 

[John146]

Given that I just told you they say the same thing, your response is silly.

They say the same thing but use completely different words.

 

[Sipsey]

They say the same thing but use completely different words.

That’s called, “Good writing,” or good speech. Paul and the Apostles modified their words for their audiences, without changing the core message.

 

[Kroogz]

You're talking out the bottom end of your digestive tract.

The top end of my digestive track LOL!

 

[Kroogz]

Another one in Romans 10.:9, when confessing the Lord Jesus, you are confessing his testimony. On the other hand, confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord will get you nowhere. One day, every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. That does not bring about salvation.

KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

ESV
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Neither one brings salvation. Trusting/believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work for one's salvation DOES.

Paul was addressing the Jews and their audible shema prayer. The prayer was confessed with their mouths morning and evening....everyday. The prayer expressed the Jews belief in the singularity of God and His oneness.

The change in BELIEF was his point.

 

[Kroogz]

Neither one brings salvation. Trusting/believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work for one's salvation DOES.

Paul was addressing the Jews and their audible shema prayer. The prayer was confessed with their mouths morning and evening....everyday. The prayer expressed the Jews belief in the singularity of God and His oneness.

The change in BELIEF was his point.

I should clarify. Confessing with the mouth does not bring salvation. It's believing/trusting in Christ alone for one's salvation that brings His salvation.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Which Bible version was used by the people who started the Jehovah's Witnesses? The Mormons? The Seventh-Day Adventists? The Christian Scientists? The Christadelphians? How about the Unitarian Universalist 'Church'? Suddenly the way you're applying that verse doesn't make sense.


You can name many alleged false doctrines "caused" by modern translations, but you haven't yet identified a single group that actually believes such doctrines and traces their origin to a modern translation. Without anyone who believes it, a false doctrine is nothing more than a bad idea on a shelf.

I have talked with plenty who hold to many false doctrines found in Modern Bibles. So no. It is not an idea on a shelf. False teachings in incorrect Bibles naturally lead to false beliefs. I have witnessed it firsthand many times. Even on this forum, I have witnessed this already.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Please provide an unbiased source quote of Erasmus saying these words concerning Scripture.

Don't be ridiculous.

Right, it's ridiculous because Erasmus never said those words to my knowledge.
The serpent in the Garden questioned God's words; Not Erasmus.
Unless of course, you can provide a quote from his own words saying so.

 

[Cameron143]

I have talked with plenty who hold to many false doctrines found in Modern Bibles. So no. It is not an idea on a shelf. False teachings in incorrect Bibles naturally lead to false beliefs. I have witnessed it firsthand many times. Even on this forum, I have witnessed this already.

False beliefs can come from good translations. I'm not in favor of bad translations, but you use the KJV and still believe in a works salvation and don't believe eternal life is actually eternal. Can't blame that on the version.

 

[Dino246]

Right, it's ridiculous because Erasmus never said those words to my knowledge.

And you were there to hear every word he spoke. Uh huh.

 

[Dino246]

They say the same thing but use completely different words.

Glad you see it now.

 

[John146]

That’s called, “Good writing,” or good speech. Paul and the Apostles modified their words for their audiences, without changing the core message.

Not when the different words contain different truths. The passages do not line up with one another. The truths contained in the passage do not line up with one another. Either the KJV is wrong or the new versions are wrong. Which is it?

 

[John146]

Neither one brings salvation. Trusting/believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work for one's salvation DOES.

That's exactly what the KJV is saying. When you confess the Lord Jesus, you are confessing the testimony of the Lord Jesus.

 

[John146]

Glad you see it now.

And the different words bring totally different truths. Again, words matter to God. One false word can change a doctrine.

 

[Sipsey]

Not when the different words contain different truths. The passages do not line up with one another. The truths contained in the passage do not line up with one another. Either the KJV is wrong or the new versions are wrong. Which is it?

That’s not what I said. An example would be like trying to explain a Biblical truth to someone in another culture, that has a very different educational background. To quote some verses exactly might not get the inherent underlining truth to their ears.

Anyone who can read English knows what the words say. The Apostles and others heard the words of Jesus, but he had to use parables available in His time to further explain what He really meant. Try explaining , “He pisseth against the wall,” as a literal phrase, without the context of it being a Jewish idiom that means something quite different.

What the words of Scripture convey demands study. Hebrew idioms abound and without context, we cannot properly understand, much less convey their meaning to anyone else, much less a child.

 

[CS1]

You can't even understand the word of God without a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a foundational truth.

Jesus is the very person we are to build on with scripture, ALL Scripture. He is the way, the life, and the Truth. It is easy to see, as Christ said that the Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL Truth and Speak of Jesus. When a postmodern bible translation is made true, Christians are able to see right through it. Because many of them Attack the Person of Christ.


“No one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says ‘Let Jesus be cursed!’ and no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit.”
(1 Corinthians 12:3).

 

[Dino246]

And the different words bring totally different truths. Again, words matter to God. One false word can change a doctrine.

Frankly, you're being ridiculous. The difference between the two renderings is so minor as to be inconsequential. You're attempting to make an issue where none exists.

KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

ESV
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Compare 1 Corinthians 12:3: "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."

So is confessing "Jesus is Lord" fundamentally different than "Jesus is the Lord"? No. It's the same thing as "confessing the Lord Jesus".