What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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K

Kroogz

Well-known member
#861
Dec 5, 2023
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#861
Cameron143 said:
It says...where is He that put His Holy Spirit within him?
What does that mean?
And how does an OT saint get saved?
Was Jesus the way, the truth, and the life for them?
Were OT saints born again?
I will grant you it was different for OT saints. But how? Difference or difference in degree?
Click to expand...
I see in the midst of. upon them. or in the group.

among
בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ (bə·qir·bōw)
Preposition-b | Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's 7130: The nearest part, the center

And I just think it was different. When is the last time a believer had to pray for the Lord not to take the Spirit from them? We can't pray for that. So it was different somehow. I just believe that the indwelling of the Spirit is unique for the Church.

Trusting in Jesus Christ was the way, is the way, will be the way. Same for ALL mankind. FAIR.

They were eternally saved. Born-again? I would have to study that more. That seems to be a church age def.? They were in paradise, and not led to heaven until Jesus Died on the Cross. So something was different.

I couldn't go into much more detail on the differences.
 
7

7thMoon

Banned
#862
Apr 27, 2023
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#862
Cameron143 said:
My question was in response to post #855. Both seemed to be given as reasons. I was looking for clarity.
So what does save?
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Believe it or not, you don't have to be divine to save someone, but it would help muchly.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#863
Sep 23, 2014
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Obedience said:
Righteousness is obedience to God's word, which has been since Adam and Eve. "you can't eat it!"
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My granddaughter has so much faith in her father, my son, that she'll scramble up to the highest step he'll allow her and, watching him the entire tire as much as his eyes are attending to her, she giggles as she leaps off knowing he is near and will catch her.
I think your idea of God's word is Moses Law, which He gave through Moses and appointed Aaron to preside over but, what then if He replaced Moses, the house, with the builder of the house, Jesus, and Aaron, the mortal priest, with His Son, the everlasting high priest and His Word is, "Trust Him as You Trust Me," but you refuse to obey it? That is if you don't trust the Son then you don't trust the Father and vice versa.

Although my son may tell my granddaughter, "Jump," there will come a point in time when my son tells my granddaughter to refrain from leaping off the stair at him, for good reason, and if she continues to jump... that is disobedience.
 
K

Kroogz

Well-known member
#864
Dec 5, 2023
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#864
Cameron143 said:
The gospel Paul preached is Christ dying for our sins...that He was buried...and rose again the third day...
Something has to be known. There is a reason the gospel is part of salvation. Faith needs an object. We don't believe just anything. We believe into Christ. So at least at some level, we understand our need of salvation and Jesus seems like a pretty good choice.
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I just took it for granted everybody here knew what the Gospel was. Yes, I should be more specific.

If we recognize we are sinners and in need of salvation. If we trust in Christ His life,death and He rose again(His work on the Cross) for our sins we shall be saved.

That's what we need to know about God to be saved. And every rational creature has that truth revealed to them at some time in their lives. And if we are slack with our witness,He or some other believer will pick up the slack.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#865
Mar 1, 2022
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#865
Kroogz said:
I see in the midst of. upon them. or in the group.

among
בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ (bə·qir·bōw)
Preposition-b | Noun - masculine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's 7130: The nearest part, the center

And I just think it was different. When is the last time a believer had to pray for the Lord not to take the Spirit from them? We can't pray for that. So it was different somehow. I just believe that the indwelling of the Spirit is unique for the Church.

Trusting in Jesus Christ was the way, is the way, will be the way. Same for ALL mankind. FAIR.

They were eternally saved. Born-again? I would have to study that more. That seems to be a church age def.? They were in paradise, and not led to heaven until Jesus Died on the Cross. So something was different.

I couldn't go into much more detail on the differences.
Click to expand...
I was just asking questions. Isaiah 63:11 does speak of OT saints and the Spirit indwelling them. The promise of the Father spoken of by Jesus and prophesied in Joel and fulfilled on Pentecost was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The difference in OT and NT saints seems to be the degree to which the Holy Spirit is experienced. The OT speaks often of sprinkling. The NT of outpouring.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Kroogz said:
I just took it for granted everybody here knew what the Gospel was. Yes, I should be more specific.

If we recognize we are sinners and in need of salvation. If we trust in Christ His life,death and He rose again(His work on the Cross) for our sins we shall be saved.

That's what we need to know about God to be saved. And every rational creature has that truth revealed to them at some time in their lives. And if we are slack with our witness,He or some other believer will pick up the slack.
Click to expand...
You believe every person who ever lived heard the gospel?
 
7

7thMoon

Banned
#868
Apr 27, 2023
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#868
Cameron143 said:
You need to be divine to save someone from their sin.
Click to expand...
If thou purposely set your house on fire, and then the fire department rescues you; did they need to be divine to save you from your sin i.e. wrongdeed?
 
K

Kroogz

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#869
Dec 5, 2023
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#869
Cameron143 said:
I was just asking questions. Isaiah 63:11 does speak of OT saints and the Spirit indwelling them. The promise of the Father spoken of by Jesus and prophesied in Joel and fulfilled on Pentecost was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The difference in OT and NT saints seems to be the degree to which the Holy Spirit is experienced. The OT speaks often of sprinkling. The NT of outpouring.
Click to expand...
I really don't have a problem with indwelling. But it seems that the Holy Spirit could come and go. Where we are sealed. And He's permanent with us.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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7thMoon said:
If thou purposely set your house on fire, and then the fire department rescues you; did they need to be divine to save you from your sin i.e. wrongdeed?
Click to expand...
At some point. But I would appreciate being saved by a fireman first.
 
K

Kroogz

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#871
Dec 5, 2023
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#871
Cameron143 said:
You believe every person who ever lived heard the gospel?
Click to expand...
Now we are getting into the murky. Every rational, free, cognitive person who ever lived will somehow get the Gospel(Christ and His work on the Cross for our sins) message. The "normal" accountable person will get the Gospel somehow, somewhere.

So, the blessing in disguise? He condemned us ALL at birth. So He is fair and Just to save anyone that is not accountable, doesn't have the mental capacity or for whatever reason can't understand the Gospel.
 
Mem

Mem

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#872
Sep 23, 2014
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The legal tender in every instance of salvation has always been faith. Even so, an alternative coinage would've been acceptable, and the terms were specifically explained, and each individual had to work for his own, no one could depend on the wages of another because an unalloyed pure coin was needed, sinlessness. Jesus earned that coveted coin but deposited? it into the community chest when he accepted the sentence of death so that anyone that had to pay that sentence could, by use of the money that God declared to be a fair tender, such that He values it, (i.e. come, buy without money) that is faith...
 
7

7thMoon

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Cameron143 said:
At some point. But I would appreciate being saved by a fireman first.
Click to expand...
You seem a little confused. The problem is that we are not woke from the dead, nor rescued into the afterlife. The first is a miracle, and the second wouldn't be a rescue.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Kroogz said:
I really don't have a problem with indwelling. But it seems that the Holy Spirit could come and go. Where we are sealed. And He's permanent with us.
Click to expand...
You are correct that most experiences with the Holy Spirit were characterized as you say. But, then again, the Bible only speaks of a remnant being saved. But if OT saints aren't indwelt, you have 2 different ways of salvation, not 1.
I just think God was concealing His ways and purposes in the OT, and as NT saints 2,000 years removed from the cross, we are the beneficiaries of a higher degree of revelation than our earlier brethren.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mem said:
The legal tender in every instance of salvation has always been faith. Even so, an alternative coinage would've been acceptable, and the terms were specifically explained, and each individual had to work for his own, no one could depend on the wages of another because an unalloyed pure coin was needed, sinlessness. Jesus earned that coveted coin but deposited? it into the community chest when he accepted the sentence of death so that anyone that had to pay that sentence could, by use of the money that God declared to be a fair tender, such that He values it, (i.e. come, buy without money) that is faith...
Click to expand...
Love me with tender,
Love me true.
All my dreams fulfilled.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#876
Jul 3, 2015
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#876
selahsays said:
Here is an example of free will.

"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

- Joshua 24:15
Click to expand...
That is an example of choosing. I see nothing about free will there? And you know, God was telling them to
circumcise their hearts. Were they able to? Were you able to? I know I was not able to circumcise my own heart.
Scripture says it is not done by human hands, i.e., it is a work of the Spirt, and Peter said nobody was able to bear
the burdens put on them. So the idea of choosing, though impossible for the natural man, is possible with God.

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#878
Jul 3, 2015
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#878
Mem said:
The legal tender in every instance of salvation has always been faith. Even so, an alternative coinage
would've been acceptable, and the terms were specifically explained, and each individual had to work
for his own, no one could depend on the wages of another because an unalloyed pure coin was needed,
sinlessness. Jesus earned that coveted coin but deposited? it into the community chest when he accepted
the sentence of death so that anyone that had to pay that sentence could, by use of the money that God
declared to be a fair tender, such that He values it, (i.e. come, buy without money) that is faith...
Click to expand...

Hebrews 11:6
:)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#880
Jul 3, 2015
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#880
Mem said:
I was just looking for the verse that God says, "I am your reward..." :) if I'm remembering it correctly...:unsure:
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Genesis 15:1, NIV After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Do not be afraid,
Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward. Colossians 3:23-24, ESV Whatever you do,
work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive
the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
 
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