What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?
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Some require you to believe that faith is a work (ergon) to be a true Christian. Some believe one must agree that the unsaved cannot believe the gospel without first being regenerated/born again by the Holy Spirit to be a true Christian.How are these sects different from Christianity which only requires you to believe?
Yes, I realize that, and many believe as you do, but I think that no verse stands alone and must
be harmonized with, and seen in the light of, other verses in order to come to a correct understanding (and as we are so directed by the Bible to do, given that is the way that God chose to write it). Besides our individual perceptions of who each pronoun represents, there is nothing in the verse itself (that I can see) except for the first "he", to actually make that determination. Especially since it was the "it" that was being reckoned "to him". That is why I included the other verses which seem (at least to me), to clearly demonstrate who the sources of true faith and righteousness were/are, and thereby, fill in the unknowns of the verse - not the least of which is Romans 4:9, where we see that "FAITH was RECKONED TO Abraham FOR righteousness", IOW, it was faith that was reckoned to Abraham. As a part of it was/is righteousness. So, that faith could only be Christ's faith because only Christ's faith has righteousness.
Also, I think had it been intended as you perceive it, then it would have instead been phrased as:
"And he believed in the LORD, and he accounted righteousness to him for his belief", and not in the reverse as it was phrased.
I won't belabor this further.
John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
John 6:40
“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John12:45~~And the one who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
John6:45
“It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
John 6:40
“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Service. Not salvation.
Luke 6:13~~And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:
Luke 6:13~~And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:
Not salvation. Once born-again, we are new creations and not of this world.
Not salvation. Elected/ chosen for blessings.
Not salvation. Before the foundation of the world God's plan was for believers to be Holy and blameless before Him.
Again, not salvation. The predestined plan, at salvation, all believers are adopted as children.
Again, not salvation. All believers will obtain a predestined inheritance(great eternal rewards.)
It is salvation. It's not an arbitrary election. It's through the Blood of Christ. John 3:16 Acts 16:1 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. God knows who is going to believe and who isn't.
Same. We are chosen through belief of the truth.
Not salvation. Ordained a prophet.
Believers shall inherit it.
Our conversation is not about spiritual maturity. It is specifically About the gospel. How one is saved. Not growing in His grace and knowledge.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. You claim man can't see it until he is born-again. This shows us the Gospel is revealed to ALL.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)
What's the context? Paul was explaining that human wisdom and intellect could never figure out the MYSTERY of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. No amount of pondering, reasoning or debating from the human mind/natural man would ever figure out Gods mystery plan of His Gospel. It had to be REVEALED. God had to wait until "it was finished" to reveal it to mankind. Why?
1 Cor 2:8~…which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The natural man could not muster up enough intellectual prowess to see this mystery. So when "it was finished" the Spirit REVEALED the MYSTERY.
1 Cor 2:10~~ these are the things God has revealed to us(Paul and the apostles Eph 3:1-9) by his Spirit.The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
Now the mystery is revealed. So ALL can see.
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12:1-2 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
What renews our mind ?
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
This is our issue
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
this is what changes it
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.”
John 6:63, 67-68 KJV
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
If our mind and heart is changed our actions will follow we believe wrong so we act wrong
Thank you for the reminder, as I have brought this up before, in particular questioning whether either Adam and/or Eve's fear of death played any role in their transgression. We know Adam was not deceived, and some postulate that it was out of his great love for Eve that he followed her suit (do please excuse the turn of that phrase), just as Christ chose to die for the sins of the whole world out of His great love for us...
@selahsays free will is not taught in the Bible! This does not preclude man's need and ability to make choices. However, the natural man is a slave to sin due to fear of death... and slaves are not free. It is a complex issue to be sure. Neither am I a Calvinist... I would love to discuss this more when I am not on my phone during my workplace lunch break...
And Sir,
If I am wrong, I'm safe. I made a rational(as a broken man) choice for Christ and was saved. If I was elected to salvation and then believed.......well I was wrong I'm Still going to the eternal state.
But if you're wrong. And It wasn't by election and you have never made a rational free choice for Christ. What then?
It's our eternal destiny at stake, so it's a pretty big matter.
Nope - you forgot to include the preceding verses. They tell us that it is only by the Spirit of God that one can understand the things of the Spirit of God. So, unless He has been given to everyone, which He hasn't been, then they cannot understand the things of Him,
and therefore, they remain unable as natural man, to know them.
[1Co 2:12-13 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Just a question Roger... Is it your belief that the Holy Spirit has to indwell a person in order for Him to be able to influence a person?
We are indwelt with the Spirit.........can't we witness to people to REVEAL the gospel to them?
I think he doesn't. But when it comes to faith, there is incumbent in faith certain spiritual understanding. Since this spiritual understanding is spiritually discerned, in the matter of salvation, the Spirit indwelling necessarily must precede faith.
John 7
John7~~37Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” 39But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
His Good News is to ALL. And ANYONE can come.
This is probably a reference to the Spirit as the promise of the Father given the day of Pentecost and not the indwelling Spirit of salvation.
[Revelation 21:7 RSV] 7 He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
21:7 ὁ νικῶν κληρονομήσει ταῦτα καὶ ἔσομαι αὐτῷ θεὸς καὶ αὐτὸς ἔσται μοι υἱός
So, you believe that the Holy Spirit must be indwelling a person even before we are drawn to reading the Word, understanding enough to believe and crying out for Salvation? Interesting.