What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[rogerg]

I agree in the excerpt below where Spurgeon says regarding Abraham:

“ “He believed in the Lord, and He counted it to him for righteousness.” Surely, brethren, if Abram, after years of holy living, is not justified by his works, but is accepted before God on account of his faith, much more must this be the case with the ungodly sinner who, having lived in unrighteousness, yet believeth on Jesus and is saved. If there be salvation for the dying thief, and others like him, it cannot be of debt, but of grace, seeing they have no good works. If Abram, when full of good works, is not justified by them, but by his faith, how much more we, being full of imperfections, must come unto the throne of the heavenly grace and ask that we may be justified by faith which is in Christ Jesus, and saved by the free mercy of God!

Actually, selahsays, I think the quote usually attributed to Abraham, is, at its core, speaking of God.

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

I think this is what it is actually saying:

first "And he": Abraham
second "and he: Abraham
" counted it to him for righteousness: God

IOW, Abraham accounted his belief to the righteousness of God, not that God accounted Abraham's
belief to Abraham for righteousness:

I base that upon these (and other) verses:

In Rom 1:17, we see God's righteousness becomes demonstrated when someone believes because it is from Christ's faith
unto becoming the person's faith, by which faith, they believe.

[Rom 1:16-17 KJV]
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[rogerg]

I agree in the excerpt below where Spurgeon says regarding Abraham:

“ “He believed in the Lord, and He counted it to him for righteousness.” Surely, brethren, if Abram, after years of holy living, is not justified by his works, but is accepted before God on account of his faith, much more must this be the case with the ungodly sinner who, having lived in unrighteousness, yet believeth on Jesus and is saved. If there be salvation for the dying thief, and others like him, it cannot be of debt, but of grace, seeing they have no good works. If Abram, when full of good works, is not justified by them, but by his faith, how much more we, being full of imperfections, must come unto the throne of the heavenly grace and ask that we may be justified by faith which is in Christ Jesus, and saved by the free mercy of God!

I should have also included in my reply (#761), that by being imputed Christ's faith, Abraham was made righteous.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why would Paul have to reveal the Gospel to folks that already believe the gospel?

Sheep are depicted in the scriptures as God's adopted children. The remnant of the house of Jacob/Israel (the sheep who have been revealed the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ) are instructed to teach the doctrine of Christ to the lost sheep of the house of Jacob/Israel who God has blinded to understand the doctrine (Rom 11:7-8) because of their disobedience.

The lost sheep still have the promise of their eternal inheritance, but are lost from their knowledge of the truth of the doctrine of Christ. Rom 10:1-3 is an example where Paul is praying for the lost sheep of the house of Jacob/Israel that they might be saved=delivered from their ignorance of God's righteousness.

 

[Magenta]

I just want to say I have followed this subject right through and wish to congratulate you
Magenta on the way you have consistently replied/answered. You have been polite, your
assessments sound and all have contained well chosen Scriptures. I find it near impossible
to add any more to what you have written. Well done, God bless you.

Thank You! God Bless You

 

[7thMoon]

If you equate Christianity as a synonym for “Religion,” your statement has merit; However, if you refer to the Gospel as being full of Gnosticism, we will disagree. Remember, it was the religious elite of the day, that insisted Jesus was the apostate and should die. A bunch of “do’s & don’ts” is a qualifier for many religions, I see and experience a vast difference between knowing Jesus as Saviour, and knowing about Jesus.

Knowledge is always more important than experience, a.k.a., gnosis.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Another thought. If Paul didn't mean that it was revealed to ALL. And it was strictly meant for the saints in Ephesus. How did you hear about the Gospel? I certainly have never personally talked to Paul nor have I been to Ephesus.

After we have been born again spiritually by God's grace, we begin our spiritual growth as babes in Christ on the milk of of the word, unable to digest the meat until we mature. We are taught the gospel by those who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the unserchable riches of Christ (Eph 3:1-8).

 

[Magenta]

Ergon (Work) means an act that requires effort. Faith is not a work because believing does not require effort. It is not an effort to grasp for to get something nor an effort expended to cling onto to keep something, but a surrendering to trust someone, which surrender saves us. Works that require effort follow this letting go, but do not save us. It is the letting go that saves us.

2 Peter 1:5-8

 

[Obedience]

I find most of Christianity is full of Gnosticism and experiences.

Do you know what Gnosticism is?

 

[Magenta]

Knowledge is always more important than experience, a.k.a., gnosis.

Without experiencing God, how can any truly know Him?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Actually, selahsays, I think the quote usually attributed to Abraham, is, at its core, speaking of God.

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

I think this is what it is actually saying:

first "And he": Abraham
second "and he: Abraham
" counted it to him for righteousness: God

IOW, Abraham accounted his belief to the righteousness of God, not that God accounted Abraham's
belief to Abraham for righteousness:

I base that upon these (and other) verses:

In Rom 1:17, we see God's righteousness becomes demonstrated when someone believes because it is from Christ's faith
unto becoming the person's faith, by which faith, they believe.

[Rom 1:16-17 KJV]
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

If I might add also, that spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. If a person has not been born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they have no spiritual faith, only the faith of the natural man.

 

[Mem]

Speaking toward Magenta's conversation with Bill and Ted (I can't help but add an air guitar here)...

I think it was Bill and Ted, but I might've just wanted reason to play the air guitar...

, concerning Adam's initial perfection and potential to sin and whether it was an intrinsic component within his nature,

Scripture tells us that fear of death bounds? men to sin, so I think there must've been some fear factor that the devil employed to irritate this reality.

Idk if fear is a sin in itself but I'd think it must've had something to do with the into sin.

As I wrote briefly earlier of the moment of knowing that I was saved, fear was first to dissipate... and Jesus' declaration, "My peace I leave with you."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
In this verse, Jesus is referring to the election, the same ones written about in Romans 8:26-30. These are the ones that the Father has already given to Christ.

Romans 8:28-30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul was a chosen vessel (Acts 9:15). Paul is saying that God will use His chosen vessels from both the Jews and the Gentiles.

…..
selah

Both the Jew's and Gentiles (THAT WERE CALLED)

 

[selahsays]

Actually, selahsays, I think the quote usually attributed to Abraham, is, at its core, speaking of God.

[Gen 15:6 KJV] 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

I think this is what it is actually saying:

first "And he": Abraham
second "and he: Abraham
" counted it to him for righteousness: God

IOW, Abraham accounted his belief to the righteousness of God, not that God accounted Abraham's
belief to Abraham for righteousness:

I base that upon these (and other) verses:

In Rom 1:17, we see God's righteousness becomes demonstrated when someone believes because it is from Christ's faith
unto becoming the person's faith, by which faith, they believe.

[Rom 1:16-17 KJV]
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Hi, brother. . . I believe that the antecedent of the second pronoun ‘He’ is the LORD.

Genesis 15:6 NKJV) And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 15:6 (NRSV) And he believed the LORD; and the LORD reckoned it to him as righteousness.

 

[Mem]

And speaking to John and selahsays' conversation, which brings up a thought I earlier tagged with the intent to meditate on further...
Do we have the concept of "righteousness" correct? What is it, exactly?

 

[selahsays]

Thank You! God Bless You

Hey, you . . . What’s your take on this election/free will subject?

 

[selahsays]

And speaking to John and selahsays' conversation, which brings up a thought I earlier tagged with the intent to meditate on further...
Do we have the concept of "righteousness" correct? What is it, exactly?

I believe it means to be made right with God.

 

[selahsays]

Once again, I believe that the Bible teaches both election and free will.

Humans can be divided into two groups: the predestination group and the free will group. Here’s the scripture that I believe is telling us so:
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly (free will group) and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven(predestination/chosen group), and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

Some of us are born with free will to choose—But, some of us are not. Some of us were chosen.

SOME FREE WILL SCRIPTURES:
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Isaiah 66:3 Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Joshua 24:22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

SOME PREDESTINATION/ELECT SCRIPTURES:
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

………
Selah

 

[Mem]

I believe it means to be made right with God.

'The righteous shall live by faith,' that is a declarative statement of fact so, is faith only an elementary? component of righteousness or is it rather that faith and righteousness synonymous in that those that live by faith are the righteous? How is one "made" right?

 

[selahsays]

'The righteous shall live by faith,' that is a declarative statement of fact so, is faith only an elementary? component of righteousness or is it rather that faith and righteousness synonymous in that those that live by faith are the righteous? How is one "made" right?

Those who, by faith, believe in Jesus Christ have been made righteous in the eyes of God. Did I answer your question?

 

[Mem]

Those who, by faith, believe in Jesus Christ have been made righteous in the eyes of God. Did I answer your question?

sufficiently. thank you.