The Commandments of God (according to scripture)

[mailmandan]

I have only quoted scripture and it was not Ellen who wrote and spoke God's 4th commandment, but it was God Himself who did that. Exo 31:18 Expo 32:16

I see that you did not directly answer my question from post #473 but you indirectly answered it in this post. You obviously have placed your faith in your best efforts to obey the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on sabbath keeping) as the means of your salvation and have not yet placed your faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation.

Now simply quoting scripture does not necessarily mean that you properly interpret scripture. Of course, it was God who wrote and spoke God's 4th commandment, yet that still does not change the fact that the sabbath was for the children of Israel to keep under the old covenant of law and not for the body of Christ under the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Colossians 2:14-17; Hebrews 8:13)

Exodus 31:12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

Now in regard to Ellen White, she was a false prophet.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White (nonsda.org)

Ellen White was particularly fond of the sabbath and had this to say below:

"I beheld the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, 'It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are therein."' (Life Sketches of Ellen G. White, Pages 95-96, Official Adventist publication)

"Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious a halo of glory was all around it. I saw that the Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 33, Official Adventist publication)

The Sabbath law was not special above all other laws! (bible.ca)

Another article that would be helpful for you. SDA's have basically kept sabbath keeping into an idol.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God (nonsda.org)
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast (nonsda.org)

Thanks for proving the scriptures, guess we need to decide which side of the war we are on. With God or by default against. Mat 12:30

Jesus already drew the line in the sand. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What happened to commandment keeping in John 3:18? What happened to commandment keeping in (Acts 10:43, Acts 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; Romans 3:24-28; Romans 4:5-6; Romans 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, then why isn't it mentioned here?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I see that SDA's identify themselves as the remnant church of Revelation 12:17 so it's no surprise that you cited that verse.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Identity of Remnant Church (nonsda.org)

This is descriptive of the saints. Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments BECAUSE we know Him and not in order to know Him.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (This is descriptive of genuine believers) 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (That is descriptive of unbelievers) This is not talking about flawlessly obeying the 10 commandments under the old covenant of law.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard (biblehub.com)

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.

The more we are persecuted for upholding God's commandments, the more we know we are on the right track as scripture reveals.

Apart from faith in Christ for salvation/the righteousness of God which is by faith (Philippians 3:9) we are not upholding God's commandments but are just going through the motions of moral self-reformation and legalism apart from regeneration, which describes the Pharisees who trusted in law keeping for salvation instead of trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. I noticed that you mention very little about the blood of Christ, the cross, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ etc.. but are completely obsessed with the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) which is so telling.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God written and spoken personally by God that Jesus said we are to live by every Word. Mat 4:4

The only words in scripture that seem to matter to you mainly pertain to the old covenant of law/ the 10 commandments/commandment keeping/sabbath keeping etc.. Just as Nehemiah6 also pointed out - "The problem is that you really do not understand the difference between the Old and New Covenants." Which remains your Achilles heel.

 

[notmyown]

I would suggest you read Hebrews 7, Hebrews 9, Hebrews 10 which covers the changes in the New Covenant.

What changed is how we go about the forgiveness of sin, not that we are free to sin, which is breaking God's holy law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7

Sin has not changed, but instead of sacrificing animals for breaking God's law we can go directly to Jesus when we confess 1 John 1:9, which means one is sorry and wants a change in direction.

i wanted to thank you for responding to my posts. i believe it would be imprudent of me to continue to give you a platform for what you've been posting here, for your own sake as well as those reading, since you've shown yourself unwilling to consider what we're trying to tell you. it's my belief you don't understand the covenants, the scriptures, or what the Lord Jesus accomplished for His people.

my hope and prayer in Christ is that one day you'll go to Him, and receive abundant life.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I see that you did not directly answer my question from post #473 but you indirectly answered it in this post. You obviously have placed your faith in your best efforts to obey the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on sabbath keeping) as the means of your salvation and have not yet placed your faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation.

Now simply quoting scripture does not necessarily mean that you properly interpret scripture. Of course, it was God who wrote and spoke God's 4th commandment, yet that still does not change the fact that the sabbath was for the children of Israel to keep under the old covenant of law and not for the body of Christ under the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Colossians 2:14-17; Hebrews 8:13)

Exodus 31:12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

Now in regard to Ellen White, she was a false prophet.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White (nonsda.org)

Ellen White was particularly fond of the sabbath and had this to say below:

"I beheld the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, 'It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are therein."' (Life Sketches of Ellen G. White, Pages 95-96, Official Adventist publication)

"Jesus opened them, and I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious a halo of glory was all around it. I saw that the Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross." (Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 33, Official Adventist publication)

The Sabbath law was not special above all other laws! (bible.ca)

Another article that would be helpful for you. SDA's have basically kept sabbath keeping into an idol.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God (nonsda.org)
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast (nonsda.org)

Jesus already drew the line in the sand. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What happened to commandment keeping in John 3:18? What happened to commandment keeping in (Acts 10:43, Acts 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; Romans 3:24-28; Romans 4:5-6; Romans 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, then why isn't it mentioned here?

I see that SDA's identify themselves as the remnant church of Revelation 12:17 so it's no surprise that you cited that verse.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Identity of Remnant Church (nonsda.org)

This is descriptive of the saints. Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments BECAUSE we know Him and not in order to know Him.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (This is descriptive of genuine believers) 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (That is descriptive of unbelievers) This is not talking about flawlessly obeying the 10 commandments under the old covenant of law.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard (biblehub.com)

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.

Apart from faith in Christ for salvation/the righteousness of God which is by faith (Philippians 3:9) we are not upholding God's commandments but are just going through the motions of moral self-reformation and legalism apart from regeneration, which describes the Pharisees who trusted in law keeping for salvation instead of trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. I noticed that you mention very little about the blood of Christ, the cross, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ etc.. but are completely obsessed with the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) which is so telling.

The only words in scripture that seem to matter to you mainly pertain to the old covenant of law/ the 10 commandments/commandment keeping/sabbath keeping etc.. Just as Nehemiah6 also pointed out - "The problem is that you really do not understand the difference between the Old and New Covenants." Which remains your Achilles heel.

It's simple-

Show me in scripture where God reversed His Sabbath commandment, thus saith the Lord. When you find this maybe I will listen to you.

Man cannot reverse His blessing. Man cannot make something God made holy and make it unholy. Man cannot make something sanctified, unsanctified. So until you can find the scripture that says we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment thus saith the Lord, I will continue, just as His faithful followers did, to keep the Sabbath rest according to the commandment. Luke 23:56 and the thus saith the Lords about His holy Sabbath commandment is for us to keep and not profane. Man is not above God, so you can believe what you want, my faith is in Him.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

i wanted to thank you for responding to my posts. i believe it would be imprudent of me to continue to give you a platform for what you've been posting here, for your own sake as well as those reading, since you've shown yourself unwilling to consider what we're trying to tell you. it's my belief you don't understand the covenants, the scriptures, or what the Lord Jesus accomplished for His people.

my hope and prayer in Christ is that one day you'll go to Him, and receive abundant life.

I believe Jesus over man. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

When asked which ones to keep for eternal life He quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19

Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments- quoting from the Ten as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19-30

Jesus taught when we keep our rules over the commandments of God one worships in vain Mat 15:3-9

God wrote His laws in our hearts in the NC instead of deleting them Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33

So forgive me if I choose to believe our Creator over the popular teachings of man. Jesus told us to live by His every Word. Jesus told us to teach other the commandments.

We have two paths- Jesus told us to take the narrow path......I think believing and doing His teachings will lead us on that path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14

 

[mailmandan]

It's simple-

Show me in scripture where God reversed His Sabbath commandment, thus saith the Lord. When you find this maybe I will listen to you.

Man cannot reverse His blessing. Man cannot make something God made holy and make it unholy. Man cannot make something sanctified, unsanctified. So until you can find the scripture that says we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment thus saith the Lord, I will continue, just as His faithful followers did, to keep the Sabbath rest according to the commandment. Luke 23:56 and the thus saith the Lords about His holy Sabbath commandment is for us to keep and not profane. Man is not above God, so you can believe what you want, my faith is in Him.

It's not about reversing a blessing, making something holy as unholy or sanctified as unsanctified. That is a straw man argument. You still don't understand the purpose of the sabbath (Deuteronomy 5:15) or who it was for (Exodus 31:12-17) or that it was only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The Jews would still be keeping the sabbath day in Luke 23:56. The new covenant was not yet in place. There was a transition that took time. Show me where the body of Christ under the new covenant is specifically commanded to keep the sabbath day. If you are heavily indoctrinated, then you won't listen no matter what.

Sabbath keeping with all its rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church/Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) Period. But believe as you wish. Your faith is in your eisegesis and not in Him. You need to place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in law keeping. (Galatians 2:16)

 

[mailmandan]

I believe Jesus over man. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

When asked which ones to keep for eternal life He quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19

Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments- quoting from the Ten as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19-30

Jesus taught when we keep our rules over the commandments of God one worships in vain Mat 15:3-9

God wrote His laws in our hearts in the NC instead of deleting them Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33

So forgive me if I choose to believe our Creator over the popular teachings of man. Jesus told us to live by His every Word. Jesus told us to teach other the commandments.

We have two paths- Jesus told us to take the narrow path......I think believing and doing His teachings will lead us on that path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your answer? Because you have sufficiently kept the 10 commandments? or because you have placed your faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation?

My answer would be the latter.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It's not about reversing a blessing, making something holy as unholy or sanctified as unsanctified. That is a straw man argument. You still don't understand the purpose of the sabbath (Deuteronomy 5:15) or who it was for (Exodus 31:12-17) or that it was only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The Jews would still be keeping the sabbath day in Luke 23:56. The new covenant was not yet in place. There was a transition that took time. Show me where the body of Christ under the new covenant is specifically commanded to keep the sabbath day. If you are heavily indoctrinated, then you won't listen no matter what.

Sabbath keeping with all its rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church/Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) Period. But believe as you wish. Your faith is in your eisegesis and not in Him. You need to place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in law keeping. (Galatians 2:16)

Not according to the very words of Jesus

The Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and the Greek word here means mankind. Man was created on the sixth day in the image of God Gen 1:26 meaning in His likeness. God hallowed the Sabbath day at Creation Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3, man was created right before the first Sabbath that God said was made for them (and us)

These are God's Words..

Isaiah 56:1
56 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—


God never called the Sabbath -the Sabbath of the Jews, He identified it as My holy day. Exo 20:10 Isa 58:13 Jesus never taught the Ten Commandments were only for the Jews, His teachings were for everyone, and He led by example, our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments and taught us to as well, not to break or teach others to break the least of them and in doing so has some consequences Mat 5:19. I believe Jesus at His Word.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your answer? Because you have sufficiently kept the 10 commandments? or because you have placed your faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation?

My answer would be the latter.

We are not saved by law keeping, we are saved by grace through faith. We obey Jesus as a consequence of our faith. We need to have the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. What faith did Jesus have. Did He keep the Sabbath, did He keep all the commandments and lived to be our example to follow 1 John 2:6 Follow the Lamb!

 

[mailmandan]

Not according to the very words of Jesus

The Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and the Greek word here is mankind. Man was created on the sixth day in the image of God Gen 1:26 meaning in His likeness. God hallowed the Sabbath day at Creation Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3, man was created right before the first Sabbath that God said was made for them (and us)

These are God's Words..

Isaiah 56:1
56 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

God never called the Sabbath -the Sabbath of the Jews, He identified it as My holy day. Exo 20:10 Isa 58:13 Jesus never taught the Ten Commandments were only for the Jews, His teachings were for everyone, and He led by example, our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments and taught us to as well, not to break or teach others to break the least of them and in doing so has some consequences Mat 5:19. I believe Jesus at His Word.

Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

Now for the upteenth time, who was the Lord addressing here in Exodus? Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

Exodus 35:1 - Then Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and said to them, “These are the things that the LORD has commanded you to do: 2. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3. You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day.” Did you get that? The congregation of THE SONS OF ISRAEL, God said to them.

In regard to Mark 2:27, "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." This statement was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that Jesus' disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the sabbath while going through the fields and plucking heads of grain. (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5)

Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament in which David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-6). The bread served a practical need for David and his men, just as with Jesus and His disciples, the grain served a practical need. David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples by plucking heads of grain on the sabbath. Jesus concludes, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. So, the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath." (Mark 2:27-28)

First off, the sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them. In contrast with the agonizing, daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees had turned the sabbath into a burden by adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law, they merely violated the Pharisees’ own legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the sabbath rest. Jesus' statement does not teach that the sabbath was made for ALL mankind, as you suppose. The Israelites were of mankind, along with strangers within their gates.

Jesus said, "the sabbath was made for man," not all mankind. When Scripture is meant to be inclusive of all mankind it plainly says so. See (Matthew 28:19; John 3:16; Acts 2:17; I Timothy 2:4; Titus 2:11). These verses clearly indicate that when God offers something to all mankind, He clearly offers it to all.

The sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15, which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses." *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. Period.

In regard to Isaiah 56:6-7, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they ceased being Gentiles and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.

But where are Gentiles as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12)

And when God gave the sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10) Where is the passage that proves the sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."

 

[mailmandan]

We are not saved by law keeping,

Amen to that! (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9)

we are saved by grace through faith.

True. (Ephesians 2:8,9) But according to your gospel it's saved by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

We obey Jesus as a consequence of our faith.

Also true but your arguments as a whole culminate in sugar coated double talk.

We need to have the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. What faith did Jesus have. Did He keep the Sabbath, did He keep all the commandments and lived to be our example to follow 1 John 2:6 Follow the Lamb!

So that's your definition of faith and saved by faith? Saved by Jesus' faith through keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment)?

That's not faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation but faith in self/specifically in your best efforts to keep the 10 commandments. Good luck with that! (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Amen to that! (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9)

True. (Ephesians 2:8,9) But according to your gospel it's saved by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Also true but your arguments as a whole culminate in sugar coated double talk.

So that's your definition of faith and saved by faith? Saved by Jesus' faith through keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment)?

That's not faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation but faith in self/specifically in your best efforts to keep the 10 commandments. Good luck with that! (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

Not sure how one professes faith in Jesus, but not faith in His teachings to do them through love to Him.

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

When asked which ones to keep for eternal life He quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19

Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments- quoting from the Ten as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19-30

Jesus taught when we keep our rules over the commandments of God one worships in vain Mat 15:3-9

God wrote His laws in our hearts in the NC instead of deleting them Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33

Jesus warns us about these type of believers Mat 7:21-23

 

[mailmandan]

We are not saved by law keeping, we are saved by grace through faith. We obey Jesus as a consequence of our faith. We need to have the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. What faith did Jesus have. Did He keep the Sabbath, did He keep all the commandments and lived to be our example to follow 1 John 2:6 Follow the Lamb!

I see once again that you did not directly answer my question from post #486 but you did answer my question indirectly and it's obvious that your answer to my question is the former instead of the latter.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I see once again that you did not directly answer my question from post #486 but you did answer my question indirectly and it's obvious that your answer to my question is the former instead of the latter.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 God's unedited version Exo 20 that all man will be judged by James 2:10-12. His righteousness Psa 119:172 His Truth Psa 119:151 and not our version of it. If we have faith in Jesus, we would have faith in His teachings and to do them. Faith is not passive, but active, Nor is love to Him 1 John 5:3

 

[mailmandan]

Not sure how one professes faith in Jesus, but not faith in His teachings to do them through love to Him.

Not sure how one professes faith in Jesus yet fails to trust in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Doing His teachings is a consequence of our faith and our love for Him. Faith is expressed through love. (Galatians 5:6)

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

To "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments is the demonstrative evidence of our love for Him, but not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

When asked which ones to keep for eternal life He quoted directly from the Ten Mat 19:17-19

Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he falls of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37) The rich young ruler confidently and (self-righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Sound familiar? Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches. (vs. 21-23) He went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - "keep the commandments and you will be saved," yet instead, Paul said - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments- quoting from the Ten as it affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19-30

Pay close attention to verse 20. Matthew 5:20 - "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven," this statement from Jesus would come as a shock to the multitude of people who had great admiration of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness and holiness in external observance of the law, yet Jesus points out their righteousness was defective.

Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."

We see in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector an example of those who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, yet despised others. (Luke 18:9-14) We also see this today with various modern day Pharisees. The righteousness that exceeds the "righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees" (self righteousness) is the righteousness of God which is from God by faith.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Jesus taught when we keep our rules over the commandments of God one worships in vain Mat 15:3-9

Jesus was addressing the Pharisees and teachers of the law here.

God wrote His laws in our hearts in the NC instead of deleting them Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33

So according to you, there is nothing new about the new covenant. It is simply the old covenant repackaged.

Jesus warns us about these type of believers Mat 7:21-23

These are not genuine believers in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. They were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Christ alone.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[mailmandan]

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 God's unedited version Exo 20 that all man will be judged by James 2:10-12. His righteousness Psa 119:172 His Truth Psa 119:151 and not our version of it. If we have faith in Jesus, we would have faith in His teachings and to do them. Faith is not passive, but active, Nor is love to Him 1 John 5:3

Do you claim to be sinless? (1 John 1:8-10) Do you understand the difference between faith and works?

 

[Cameron143]

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 God's unedited version Exo 20 that all man will be judged by James 2:10-12. His righteousness Psa 119:172 His Truth Psa 119:151 and not our version of it. If we have faith in Jesus, we would have faith in His teachings and to do them. Faith is not passive, but active, Nor is love to Him 1 John 5:3

How do we do His teachings? How do we love others the way He has loved us?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

Now for the upteenth time, who was the Lord addressing here in Exodus? Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded YOU to observe the sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

Exodus 35:1 - Then Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and said to them, “These are the things that the LORD has commanded you to do: 2. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3. You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day.” Did you get that? The congregation of THE SONS OF ISRAEL, God said to them.

In regard to Mark 2:27, "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." This statement was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that Jesus' disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the sabbath while going through the fields and plucking heads of grain. (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5)

Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament in which David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-6). The bread served a practical need for David and his men, just as with Jesus and His disciples, the grain served a practical need. David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples by plucking heads of grain on the sabbath. Jesus concludes, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. So, the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath." (Mark 2:27-28)



First off, the sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them. In contrast with the agonizing, daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees had turned the sabbath into a burden by adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law, they merely violated the Pharisees’ own legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the sabbath rest. Jesus' statement does not teach that the sabbath was made for ALL mankind, as you suppose. The Israelites were of mankind, along with strangers within their gates.

Jesus said, "the sabbath was made for man," not all mankind. When Scripture is meant to be inclusive of all mankind it plainly says so. See (Matthew 28:19; John 3:16; Acts 2:17; I Timothy 2:4; Titus 2:11). These verses clearly indicate that when God offers something to all mankind, He clearly offers it to all.

The sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15, which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses." *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses. Period.

In regard to Isaiah 56:6-7, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they ceased being Gentiles and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.

But where are Gentiles as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12)

And when God gave the sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10) Where is the passage that proves the sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."

Israel was a name God gave to identify His people, it was both literal and metaphorical, now it is spiritual. Gal 2:26-28, Romans 9:6 we are grafted in through faith. Those with faith uphold God’s law Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

The New Covenant is still made with Israel, but through faith we are grafted in and God writes His law in our hearts and minds and gives us the power to obey Him through love and faith.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

So when we get to the promises like when Jesus reveals His salvation that is about to come and His righteousness those with faith (not just Israel) hence- everyone who keeps His covenant will receive His promises- not just Israel


Isaiah 56:1
56 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

 

[SabbathBlessing]

How do we do His teachings? How do we love others the way He has loved us?

Jesus had many teachings and there all work in harmony.

According to scripture this is how we love others and God. Love does not go undefined and it’s more than a feeling, it’s a call to action.

1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus had many teachings and there all work in harmony.

According to scripture this is how we love others and God. Love does not go undefined and it’s more than a feeling, it’s a call to action.

1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

How? Explain how you actually keep the commandment to love as Jesus loves.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

How? Explain how you actually keep the commandment to love as Jesus loves.

The first 4 commandments are how we love God.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lordmade the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The last 6 how to love our neighbor

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lordyour God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Jesus expanded what it means to have God’s law in our hearts quoting from the Ten Mat 5:19-30

From tables of stone (God's law on stone for its eternal nature Deut 4:13) to tablets of the heart ( God's law in the heart Heb 8:10) and Jesus shows us exactly what this looks like giving two examples as principles quoting right from the Ten Commandments applying the Ten not only keeping the letter but also applying it to our thoughts and feelings where sin and matters of the heart start from. If one removes anger and contempt from our hearts, thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. This is how we keep the law in our heart, and it applies to all Ten Commandments as Jesus said not to break the least of these and the spirit of the law is greater, not lessor.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old (Old Covenant) , ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.(New Covenant in Action) And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
27 “You have heard that it was said [i]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Not only should we literally not commit adultery or murder or breaking the least of these commandments we should not even think it the heart, where sin starts in the heart and what the new covenant is about God's law in our hearts Heb 8:10